How to Run an Intuition & Heart-Led Creative Business Without Burning Out with Lisa DiGeso

Speaker 1: 0:00

Just say my core desired feeling is to empower, educate and inspire other people. So, regardless of me feeling scared, I'm going to show up and I'm going to do that anyway.

Speaker 2: 0:11

Welcome to Tried and True with the Dash of Woo, where we're all about mixing tried and true strategies that actually work with the magic of manifestation and the science of programming your unconscious mind so that you walk away feeling integrated, inspired and aligned. I'm Renee Bowen, certified Life and Business Coach, professional Photographer, middle-aged Wife and Mom to now three grown kids. I've built two multiple six-figure businesses with zero business training by digging in and learning the methods, and now I'm here to pass them all on to you, from photography and business strategies to energy healing, human design and the basics of manifestation we cover it all here. I'm here to help you embrace your multi-passionate brains and lean in to the fastest and most efficient ways to reach your goals, whatever they may be. Whether you're a season pro or just starting out, or maybe you're just here for the woo-woo let's dive in and explore all the exciting ways to take your life, business and self-improvement to the next level. Thanks for joining me and get ready to be inspired.

Speaker 2: 1:22

Hey, hey, welcome back to Tried and True with the Dash of Woo. I'm your host, renee Bowen. Thank you so much for joining me here again today. I truly appreciate your listenership. If you guys haven't left us a review. Yet please head over and do that. It helps us so so much and it's really really easy, because I have a service called Rate this Podcast. So all you have to do is go to ratethispodcastcom, slash, renebowen R-E-N-E-E-B-O-W-E-N, and it's going to ask you what platform you want to leave it on. It's super, super easy, and I did that because I want to make it easy for you guys to leave with some love. I want to read a review that was just left for us, because I like to highlight these reviews every once in a while and I will send you guys a little gift for leaving us a review too. So this one is from Mitt, by Kimberly, and she says although Renee is geared for photographers, she has so much knowledge for all, from social media tips to pushing you to reach your personal growth. I often find myself sharing her podcast with my adult daughter. She is neither a photographer or a business owner, but the life and energy advice Renee shares is too good to keep to myself. If you're looking for a mentor, give her a listen. Thank you so much, kimberly. That was such a sweet review. I love that you're sharing that with your adult daughter. That just speaks to my soul and my senior photographer soul, because I love working with teens and young adult, especially young adult women, and so I love that you're sharing it with her. Thank you so much for leaving us that sweet review, okay y'all.

Speaker 2: 2:51

So Lisa Digueso is my guest today and she is a photographer at Milk and Honey Photography. She's also the co -owner of Milky Way, a photographer's resource, and she is the host and producer of their online retreat series as well. She also has a podcast of her own called the Art and Soul Show. She's a wannabe yogi, avid book buyer and education junkie. She calls herself a curious cat, always exploring and researching something Speaking to my soul. I totally get that. She says that she's always been a color outside the lines kind of girl, looking at the world with a sense of humor and through rose colored glasses. So she is such a fun person to chat with for this podcast in particular because, like I said, we have a lot in common.

Speaker 2: 3:41

I was a guest on her podcast, I'm gonna do one of her retreats next year, we just vibe and so I know you're going to get a lot from this conversation, especially if you have questions or issues about limiting beliefs, taking a sabbatical, getting real about imposter syndrome and how to actually really work with that, realizing that everybody is kind of dealing with it. But we go deep into some of these topics today and I know that you're going to walk away with some awesome takeaways, so let's get right into it. Here's my conversation with Lisa. Hey, lisa, thanks so much for being here today. It's so good to see you again.

Speaker 1: 4:17

Awesome. Thanks for having me. I'm excited and a little nervous about being here today, but we're going to have a lot of fun.

Speaker 2: 4:23

Yeah, you're always the one in the driver's seat right With your podcast.

Speaker 2: 4:27

So, yeah, a little different hat for you today. Yeah, super fun. Okay, I want to just jump right in because you describe yourself and your bio which I love as a curious cat, and I get that. It's totally, totally a me thing too. But I know that you're also a manifesting generator from our last conversation and so I know that a lot of my listeners can identify with that. A lot of my listeners are also Mani-gens. They're curious about a lot of things. We kind of go down a lot of rabbit holes. We have a lot of browser tabs open, that kind of stuff. So can you just kind of tell us a little bit about your journey from going from being super curious and being interested in all these things to becoming this multi-passionate entrepreneur, but in an organized way, because you do a lot. You've got you run, you know, different businesses in same sort of field, but you've got other things going on. How do you make all of that make sense, basically?

Speaker 1: 5:22

Well, in my former life I actually used to be an event planner, and which is funny because I am not like my parents. When they found out I wanted to be an event planner, they were like no, you are the most disorganized person on the planet, but I just loved all the details on the munition of like an event. So when it comes to organizing things, for some reason I am exceptionally good at it in my business. In life not so much, like things can be completely chaos and it's just funny. That kind of just that just kind of led me to more things I was curious about and I kind of just added things on top of that and, like, I've always had multiple businesses going on at once and yeah, like, even from like my first, my first business was a. I was a little event planner. Do you remember when the movie the Wedding Planner came out? Yes, I okay. So my husband and I were engaged that year and I wanted. I was like I was 21, 22. I didn't know what the heck I was going to do with my life. And that movie came out and I was like, oh my gosh, you could make a living being a wedding planner. That is my jam. So I ended up going to school, got my diploma as an event planner, got a certificate as a wedding coordinator and then started my own little company called Festivity Creative Event Design and did weddings for a couple of years. But on top of that I had other businesses that I was playing with. I was designing baby clothes with like writing on them, just whatever.

Speaker 1: 6:56

Whatever I felt curious about I let myself do, and instead of having that stop switch going, who am I to do this? I said, okay, well, what's going to happen? What would happen if this actually made like worked? And I just let myself play. And I think that I've always had that spirit of like well, what's the worst thing that can possibly happen? I'm going to embarrass myself? Well, I don't really think anyone's really paying attention to what I'm doing anyway, so does it really matter? And I'm going to learn something from it anyway. I mean, I'm 45 years old now, so it's like I've had so many different lessons over the years that I think that's just something that I've always embraced is just always staying curious, always letting yourself play and enjoy. I mean, as a Mani Gen, that is like following my bliss and following my joy. That is literally what I'm on the planet to do and to share that with other people.

Speaker 1: 7:48

So I think, it's just like I'm just doing what I'm supposed to do.

Speaker 2: 7:52

I love that you were like in alignment with that, before you even really knew that that was what it was about. Right? Because like so many I hear this from so many creatives I have all these things I want to do and I want to start all these businesses or whatever. Like we have all these ideas and I've been there myself, even though I'm not a Mani Gen, I'm a generator but I still have like all these ideas, like I want a merch line and I want this and I want that.

Speaker 2: 8:14

And I feel like for a long time it felt like not necessarily the last, like year to maybe three years, but like before that, I felt like in our entrepreneurial space, let's say that there was this thing of like pick your niche, do that, get really good at it, don't pay attention to all this stuff. And I was like that's literally like the creative brain. You're telling a creative to just squash what lights us up. So I love that you just said no, I'm going to follow my curiosity, which is the key really right, is to just see where that takes you and if it's fun and it lights you up, go deeper into it, and if it's a no, go to another thing. I think we just overthink it a lot and I feel like I'm glad that the last year or so, I've been hearing a lot more of this, like people just embracing their multi dimensional you know brains and allowing themselves to play a lot more. So I love that you were just doing that, like you were just so ahead of your time.

Speaker 1: 9:16

I think it was so funny. I think we're like because growing up it was I was I always felt like a different duck and I couldn't pick one thing that I was excited about. I was excited about like 10 things, and then school and society was like no, you need to pick one thing, you need to do this until you think you die, and we don't really give a care if you're going to be happy doing it, because you just need to make the maximum amount of money and that's your life. And I was like that doesn't, that doesn't really feel good. Like why do I want to do that? That's really not fun.

Speaker 1: 9:47

Like I've had, probably I've been a travel agent. I'm certified as an esthetician. I had a mobile spa company where I would go to massage therapist, right. Like I've been a makeup artist. Like it's fun. Like what? Like why can't you change your mind? I love it, I love to right. Like stop taking yourself so darn seriously and just run this planet for only a short time. So we may as well enjoy what we're doing and explore and do what we want to do when we're here.

Speaker 2: 10:16

Absolutely. It's so funny because my husband back in, like when I first started my photography business because I was coming out of the massage therapy world and I had a degree in psychology and I I had all these ideas about all kinds of things I wanted to do and I kind of fell into photography, right. So there was like a period of time where he was like, what do you want to do? Like you have career ADDs. Like you may not have like true ADD, because he definitely does, but he's a man, he's Jen, he's like, but you literally like you change your mind.

Speaker 2: 10:44

And it was so weird for him because, even though he's a man, he has known since he was seven years old that he wanted to be an actor and a filmmaker. And I'm like, first of all, no one knows, Like that is, you're the rare one, I'm the normal one. But in his world, like in his mind, he had a vision. He had like this thing that just kind of pulled him his whole life and I never did. I wanted to do a lot of different things and I have done a lot of different things and I mean there's still days that I wake up and I'm like God, law school would be fun. You know I mean like seriously.

Speaker 1: 11:19

I have a list of like 20 different certifications that I'm I would like to get just for fun.

Speaker 2: 11:25

Right.

Speaker 1: 11:25

Just because I want to keep learning and that's so good for your brain, like just like to, you know, stave off dementia and Alzheimer's is like just absolutely learning, like for our brain health.

Speaker 2: 11:36

Absolutely, you get stuck in that, and the sameness, I think that's you know, it's the kiss of death for sure, like you said.

Speaker 2: 11:42

So along with this though, along with you know being good at I think a lot of it too has, you know, to do with the fact that when you are sort of good at things and you can teach yourself how to do things right, like I didn't realize that not everybody did that until I was probably in my 30s and I was like what do you mean?

Speaker 2: 12:02

You don't just teach yourself how to do something Like? I've always been that way, and so I think that, going through my own training and, you know, life coaching and things like that, I was able to see like, okay, we have so many different brains, everybody's different, but a lot of people who do teach themselves things and they are very multifaceted. Along with that, I think, and the creative brain and the sensitivity of an artist, comes this imposter syndrome, which is like super, super common, and you see it because you know you're an educator in this field as well. I'm sure you see and hear a lot about this imposter syndrome, so have you dealt with it? I'm sure it's popped up in many different ways, but how do you feel like most aligned to work with it basically?

Speaker 1: 12:50

I think, is looking at what is your desired feeling and looking at Okay. So, for example, it's just funny on my way to work this morning I went down the street I don't normally go down, but it happens to be the street my best friend lives on and all of a sudden she is walking out of Her house to go walk her dog and so we just talk when we have a conversation and she's actually she is my, basically my life coach. She is certified as a life coach. I hired her first and now Now she's my best friend, yes.

Speaker 1: 13:26

So I'm standing there talking to her and I was like dude, I'm having some serious imposter syndrome about going to this podcast this morning. And she's like dude, she's like you've done podcasts. I'm like I know. She's like you have your own part, like what's coming up? I was like I just feel like I'm gonna, I'm gonna be an idiot. I'm gonna be like people. Why would people listen to me? I'm so boring, I've got nothing to say. And she's like, oh my god, lisa, like come on. So even this morning, I still struggle with imposter syndrome. And she said to me she's like okay, well, take that thought.

Speaker 1: 14:03

And what is like the feeling that you want to leave this podcast feeling I'm like, well, I want to come on and I want the listeners to know that they're not alone if they feel this way. I want them to know that, like, we all get this. Even like if you are at the top of your industry, you're still gonna feel like you don't know everything and there's still so far for you to go. We all feel that way and I think even to the levels when people are making you know seven figures, eight figures. I've met some of like really amazing boss babes who have run these massive businesses and they all have it too.

Speaker 1: 14:39

So, no matter what, it's like Not saying we get over it. It's saying we have it and we deal with it and we use it as a catalyst to just keep going forward and that's all you can do. Just say I. My core desired feeling is to empower, educate and inspire other people. So, regardless of me feeling scared, I'm gonna show off and I'm gonna do that anyway, and maybe that's what it's about, right? You?

Speaker 2: 15:02

know, is doing it scared. I talk about that a lot because the fear is never really gonna go away, right, I mean I'm not gonna be scared. I mean we're programmed for it. For a reason we have fear to keep us alive, like if we didn't have it. What there are people, let's just say there are people who are wired differently, who don't have that fear. They've done research on that, on the actual neuroscience of those brains of people who, like Free, climb mountains and all of that stuff. Yeah, not talking about them right now because Different, that is a different level.

Speaker 2: 15:35

But most of us have this built-in Technique right to keep us alive. It's like biological, and so it's just our unconscious when we Understand that it's not gonna really go anywhere and it's just a constant like evolution of learning to work with it and do it scared. And Also I like to because it happens for me and I find that. I find that sometimes the the higher you go let's just say the more success you have right, the the bigger it can be too, because there's more pressure, right. So that's all self-imposed, it's all of that perspective. We can either perceive that as pressure or we can perceive it as opportunity and fun and a trigger like oh. Is this a trigger, like okay, that means, that means something is calling my attention, like you know, like you, like you said today, like, okay, I just so happen to run into. Like the universe works in such wonderful ways.

Speaker 1: 16:34

You know, I knew, I knew I needed that pep talk. So, yeah, like, take this different route. Okay, just listen to the divine breadcrumbs and, yes, pull over while she's standing right there and have that conversation. And you know what was? What I didn't mention was she actually had gotten some really terrible news this morning and she needed me, oh, and so she was dealing with some serious grief this morning, and so it like the universe just is, isn't it amazing? It is magic.

Speaker 2: 17:03

We needed each other so bad this morning, and that's how the universe aligned it, you know well, and also that you were both in tune enough to Listen, right, because we do live so hypnotically so many times like and not saying that you do. But I think that most of us as humanity, you know, we tend to get stuck in that same old, same old hypnotic Da da, da, da, da, da, you know, day to day thing. But when we are In tune, we can be more intentional and we can be. We can hear, we can, we can, we can notice the breadcrumbs, we can hear the signs, you know that kind of stuff. But that's why some of those practices are so important.

Speaker 2: 17:48

And I want to get into that a little bit, because I know that you really are, you align with my woo. So I, I really want to talk about that with you, because it's not all the time that I, that I have guests on that, are like really in line with all of that right. So, you know, tell me a little bit about that journey for you, like what was your gateway drug into the woo Basically? And like where are you at with it now?

Speaker 1: 18:15

Oh gosh my gateway was like 13 years old, with tarot cards like yes, oh, baby, like I had this, this box, this wood box that I got, and I got these like stencils with moons and stars, and I got that star blanket that everybody had absolutely the 90s. Yes, every everybody had that blue and yellow star blanket and I would had my friends over and I would read tarot cards and I loved it and I think that probably was my gateway into it. And then astrology got in, really into astrology and then, probably in my 20s, I Was really into Sylvia Brown. To remember Sylvia.

Speaker 1: 18:54

Yes, yes absolutely like I to the point where I actually went and saw her, uh-huh, and my husband, and so we went and saw her and then I turned my back on it for about 10 years because I really was struggling to get pregnant and really struggling on why, why me, and really like and like, really really strongly. I'd actually gone to a psychic and the psychic had said you're gonna have a hard time getting pregnant, really, yeah, and sure enough, I I took us Gosh six years to have my son. I think we did like multiple rounds of IVF and so he's our, he's our only baby, and I I really turned my back on on spirituality in the universe because I was angry and I was hurt and I was frustrated.

Speaker 1: 19:47

and then I stopped listening to like my inner voice and stopped feeling like I could communicate with my guides because I didn't feel like anyone was there and I started coming back to it. I guess probably about 10 years ago, maybe, no, maybe maybe even last, maybe eight and it just started to slip in and then, just like a waterfall, it kind of has just come back and just working with energy. I got certified in Reiki and I used that so much in my newborn sessions and just yeah, I'm certified in Reiki as well, right?

Speaker 1: 20:22

and just like I just get more and more curious because I just Coming out the other side, I can see why I needed to go down that path. But when you're in it when I was in it I couldn't see through the forest, you know.

Speaker 1: 20:36

Oh yeah, it was so painful and but now, like I, had I not gone through that, I never would have picked up a camera, I never would have become a photographer, I never would have become a photography educator or a podcaster, and I wouldn't have the life I have now if I hadn't gone through that then.

Speaker 2: 20:53

So it kind of just all like that is part of your that was part of the journey.

Speaker 2: 20:58

You know that that led you to where. I know it all makes sense Like in that retrospect, but, yeah, you're right, when you're in it it's really hard to To see it, to see that other side. It's really cool that you can have that perspective now, right, and and it led you like your business, your main. You know photography business. So tell me a little bit about that. The inspiration behind milk and honey, you know Photography and and how that led you to the education part.

Speaker 2: 21:25

But in the beginning, you know what made you want to work with newborns? Because, let me tell you, I did one newborn and that was the last one and I was like you know, I think we just know, right, like you know, I always vibe with seniors. That was my whole thing. I love seniors and so, you know, people still inquire to see, people Still ask me for newborn sessions and I'm like, no, but you can go to these people. Like I have a whole list of people that I referred to. Like it's not my thing and I love your work so much and I'm so enamored by people who have that gift, because I definitely do not. So what sort of kind of led you to Wanting to work with newborns and all of that.

Speaker 1: 22:07

I've been a baby person since birth. I'm the oldest child of four kids, like my, my brother, like I'm five, five years older than him. He was my baby doll. I would dress him and I would put him in my doll cradle, in my doll stroller. My mom just let me play with him. And then my youngest sister. I was seven years older, so I was a little mama and I just wanted to be a mom more than anything in the whole world. Like that was my life calling. I thought like, had we been able to, we probably would have had three, maybe four kids. So I just love babies. I always have loved babies.

Speaker 1: 22:42

So when I started milk and honey, I it was like, basically, when there was maybe only three, maybe four really well-known newborn photographers that were out there whose baby is art, yeah, carrie, carrie and Britt, and there was, there wasn't a whole lot out there. So there wasn't really a whole lot of examples beyond and getys of what newborn you really was right. So it was just this brand new industry. And so I had my son and I had this little point-and-shoot camera. That was awful and I cried. I was looking at all these pictures and I was like, okay, why don't my pictures look like these pictures? Yeah, like the Well comes down to, lighting comes. There is a list of a thousand reasons why it doesn't look like that. But it set me off on needing to figure out why it didn't look the same. And then I was like, how can I make it look the same? So I just got curious and then so I pretty much just studied photography for a good four months before I actually got my first DSLR camera and my husband got it for me for Valentine's Day. So I just like hit the ground running.

Speaker 1: 23:52

I've been reading about, you know, shooting in raw. So, like the day I got my camera, I was shooting in raw. I was like learning how to use Photoshop, and my son was about six months old. So then I was like, well, I can't just photograph my son.

Speaker 1: 24:07

I had actually joined a mom's stroller fit group and there was like 15 women in this group. We all had children that were within, you know, four months of each other. So this was my playground. I did like portfolio building for and just like studying on all these these babies for a good four months. And then In June I think it was a June of 2010 that's when I decided to open a photography business and at first I was doing it for free and my husband was horrified I was giving away my time. And then I was like, well, I don't know what to charge like, I don't know like 200 bucks, I don't know, like I'm not even any good like, but Nobody else was doing it at the time. So Comparatively I guess I was good right. I booked out at 200 bucks six months in advance, primarily only doing maternity, newborn and baby. That was it. And because my son was only 11 months old at that time, I always didn't even know how to work with a toddler yet.

Speaker 1: 25:11

So yeah basically the older my, my son, got, was the bigger range that I started to take, until I got into family sessions and then decided actually I don't really like family sessions so much, so I would act. My roots of just maternity and newborn but that was years later. But yeah, that's sort of how milk and honey happened and I kind of just fell into it. And I fell into this like this booked business like for probably a good 10 years. I was booked solid six months in advance, 20 clients a month, definitely not charging $200. No, I raise my prices. I didn't raise them as much as I needed to, but that came into like self-worth and not looking at numbers.

Speaker 1: 25:53

So I mean I feel like that's kind of like the route that we all take. Yeah, I mean it's kind of like every photographer story. Everybody can relate to that point where you're just not charging enough and you're miserable and you're missing all these important pieces of your life for $500, $600, $700 and it's just not worth it. But you know what. We all have to go through that to see the other side right, yeah, I think we, I think that we do.

Speaker 2: 26:17

I think that I think one of the reasons why I got into the education part and then maybe it's similar for you too Was that I wanted to try and save people a little bit from that right, like you know, like, hey, listen, you don't have to wait until you are burnt out, running yourself into the ground and you want to cry every time you open your computer. You know, I mean, we don't have to get to that, that point. But some people, you know, some people are experiential learners, let's say, and they need to, but with all of like, back when you and I were doing all this, because I was building my senior business During that same time period. I want to talk to you guys about Black Friday, but probably not in the way that you think I'm going to. Yes, I'm gonna tell you about my Black Friday sale. Yes, I think you should check it out.

Speaker 2: 27:05

However, I don't want you buying anything from me or anyone else if you are in a state of nervous system, unregulation, if you don't feel regulated and if you feel in fight or flight and there's a time limit and you feel like, oh my god, this is a scary purchase. I want you to take a minute, I want you to breathe and I want you to get back to your baseline. I want you to be regulated, because you can't make a good decision if you're not. So that's number one. If you feel that you are About to make a big purchase and it feels really scary, first of all, I Think it's always gonna feel scary, especially if you were investing in yourself and in your business. I have invested in myself many times and, whether it's a $2,000 class or a $20,000 mastermind, each time I felt a little bit of terror in doing so. However, I also Knew that it was the right thing for me to do so. There's a difference between it is not right, it is not aligned and, yes, this is in alignment, but it is scary, and I think that there does need to be a little bit of that, that fear, because you need to hold yourself accountable. You have to have some skin of the game so that you can show up for yourself in your business, and it's also a really bold statement to make to the universe because you're telling it you're ready, and there is Sometimes some fear involved in that, because you know that that means you're gonna have to show up, you're gonna have to show the F up. So, yeah, it's gonna feel scary, that's okay, as long as it feels aligned. So, that being said, happy black Friday, happy Cyber Monday, happy shopping. If you feel aligned and excited to Stock up on things that you need, absolutely go and do it. And if you want to see my black Friday sales, I do have everything pretty much at a really big discount, including my coaching, which is going up quite a bit in 2024. So if you were hoping to lock in some 2023 prices, you can get them for even cheaper than that right now, until November 27th. So I put my black Friday sales on sale for a long time Because I don't want you to make a decision out of complete and utter fear. I want you to think about it for a few days. So go check it out and then come back in another day or so and decide what you want. It's Renee dot I. Oh slash B, f and the B and the F are uppercase letters. So I will put all of this in the show notes for you as well and Go and make some aligned purchases for yourself and your business.

Speaker 2: 29:53

And it was very similar for me like no one was doing high school seniors the way I wanted to do them at all in my area, which I thought was ridiculous, and we are because. So cow like come on and I kind of had to create it. And you know, my kids were little at the time. I didn't even know anyone really with teenagers, so I was just kind of flying blind. But I found that, like it was just one of those things where I felt curious about it.

Speaker 2: 30:18

I needed to do it and we didn't have, though, this myriad of education that we do now. You know, we really did have to, like, teach ourselves, like you said, like you know, four months of just digging in right, or at least maybe finding Somebody who could let us know what was going on, but now there's so many options for education. So I feel like you don't have to wait. You don't have to Wait until you get to the point where you want to burn the business down. Try not to wait that long, you guys. If you're listening to this, it's all.

Speaker 1: 30:52

You can always turn the car around. You really really can. You just have to pull over a little bit. Got changed tires, exactly, don't burn it down.

Speaker 2: 31:00

Exactly, and you, you do education as well now. So the other part of your business is education. So tell me a little bit about you know how you wanted to, how you got into that and what your vision is for that, what you guys mainly kind of focus on because it's it's really amazing in our industry and it's such a great resource. So I want to make sure people know about that, if they don't already.

Speaker 1: 31:22

Awesome, thank you. Well, it's called the Milky Way and we have been around since 2012 and it started with basically just me being the sole Educator, which is why it's called the Milky Way, because it was a take on milk and honey photography. So, fast forward, in 2015, we decided to bring on other teachers and create online conferences, and so it basically it's just a group of 25 different educators that come together once a year on a certain theme. We do a newborn and we do a family one each year, and it's basically the best educators putting on this incredible Presentation where they're. You're going behind the scenes with them on a shoot to see how they pose, see how they just, you know talk to their clients, how they edit it.

Speaker 1: 32:06

So it's this whole start to finish thing, and what I was really important to me was that Students, especially new students, are exposed to many different ways of being a photographer and many different ways of running a business, because when you're first getting started, you think that there's only one way and if you're not doing it a certain way, you're wrong and your business is going to fail. And that's not true at all. There's so many different ways to be a photographer and I think it's really important to have that education out there so students get to pick and choose what kind of photographer they want to be, what kind of business they want to run if they want to do in-person sales. If they don't, it's their choice. It's their business. So it puts the power back in their hands to actually choose who they want to be as an artist and as an entrepreneur, and so it has been my passion for the past gosh, nine years now creating these online conferences that bring together usually an average of about 2,000 students per event, and it is just this container of positivity and joy.

Speaker 1: 33:18

Honestly, they are so encouraging, they are so supportive and I'm uplifting for each other. And they're there for the tough times too. We have some tough conversations in our groups, but to be honest, renee, I have never seen drama in any of our groups. Wow, that's awesome. It is crazy. They are so respectful and kind to each other. I am so, so proud of our community. That's like it is my everything, just watching these photographers who at the beginning they may be new, they may not even really know how to pose a newborn safely yet, and they're getting the newborn retreat and then fast forward six months, eight months later they are creating work that's actually winning awards, like it is so quick that they progress and being able to just watch that and know that you did something, you created something that's helping them. Oh my God, that is just like that's my joy. That's my joy. I totally get that. I don't even know if I can answer your questions. I have a tangent.

Speaker 2: 34:22

Same. No, totally no, but that absolutely answers it and it really, I mean, it's such a testament though I really believe that because I have been in this business a long time. I have been in a lot of groups, as you have probably as well, and I don't know if it's like this in other niches, genres of photography, because I definitely have been hanging around mostly senior photography groups right, there could be a lot of drama with photographers, and so it's a big testament to you as well as an educator. That, because I really do believe that your vibes sets the tone, and so that was one of my main things too with my groups when I decided to go into senior photography education.

Speaker 2: 35:11

So that's what I wanted, that sort of vibe, that energy, and it really is a lot like raising kids in a lot of ways, right, like if you want something, you have to be it. Like if you want them to be kind, you just have to be kind. You can't teach them, you can't tell them. You can tell them, but they're not going to listen. You have to be it. And so that says a lot about you and your community and the educators you take in to be the leaders in those groups, because that does set the tone, and so that's really nice to hear, because that's not always the case.

Speaker 1: 35:44

I've been in other groups and I'm like what I have to leave. I have to leave. This isn't my vibe, I can't be here.

Speaker 2: 35:53

Trust me, I get that more than you know. I can have a whole conversation with you offline about that. But you do talk about running a business with intention, integrity and heart and soul. So what does that look like in practice for you? What is that?

Speaker 1: 36:12

What is best for my students or clients, what is best for everyone? I consider everyone and what is best case scenario for everyone. When I make a decision and it comes from my heart, there have been business decisions where we could have done things and made a lot of money, but it didn't align, it didn't feel right, it didn't feel good, it didn't feel maybe ethical, so I'm not going to do it. There's no way. There's no way that money is worth my integrity or my reputation and I just won't. And I feel like it always has to be what is best for everyone involved. And when you come at it from that angle, you will always follow your heart and you will always make the right decision.

Speaker 2: 36:54

I love that I don't think that it's definitely not the easiest thing to do sometimes, because, especially if you're presented with a large sum of money or whatever, and so, yeah, you really do. Also, I think that has a lot to do with the fact that you know yourself. You have a lot of self-awareness.

Speaker 1: 37:13

I feel like I do I feel like it's coming. I'm 45 now. I feel like I'm getting there.

Speaker 2: 37:17

Yeah, no, I mean, I feel like you have to have a really good sense of self, which is another reason why I do what I do too, and incorporate life coaching with business coaching, because I feel like the more we know ourselves, it's just more tools for us, because you can't come from a place of really making those good, informed decisions based on the good of the community, the whole picture. See all of that, get that 30,000 foot view If you don't have a really true sense of what you're about, what your purpose is, what your why is, what your connection to that is. And so that's another reason why that's where I start first, with people, no matter where they are on their journey, I'm like, no, we're going to talk about your purpose. How connected are you to it? And I feel like you, over the years, have gotten very intentional with that, and that's why I think you're able to lead in that way, just from an outside perspective. Thank you, I didn't even know I was doing that. It's the self-awareness man. It's super important.

Speaker 2: 38:21

I think we talked about that when I was on your podcast about how it feels selfish. It can feel really selfish for us women, especially to dive into all things personal development, because as wives and mothers and partners and sisters and all of these, we feel like we, and especially old, oldest kids. I was the same way. I raised my little brother, basically, and loved it. But we definitely have an energy about us and we tend to take on a lot of stuff right and we can fall into codependency very easily because of that and it's like, okay, you either keep going down that road or you get to a point where you're like that's not really working for me and I need to focus on me, I need to fill my cup and make sure that I'm not going to burn my house down, my business down and run away one day. So I know that you've also spoken about that a lot taking a sabbatical, taking some time. So tell me a little bit about that. What did that look like for you and how did you get to that point?

Speaker 1: 39:31

Oh, gosh, renee. That was scary. That was scary because for about 12 years I was simultaneously running a photography studio with at least 20 clients a month, on top of running an educational platform that was putting out some major classes, major retreats. It was a lot of work, running basically two full-time jobs and my family was really suffering. I was missing a lot of my son's things and I'm like, what am I doing? He's now 14. And how much more time does he want to be with me?

Speaker 1: 40:09

And so when I had that sort of come to Jesus moment, I was like things have to change, things really have to change. And so it started with actually, the pandemic really started. It was like my head just hit a wall when everything got shut down Because I had so many newborns booked in March of that year and then I couldn't do anything. And then I kind of got that feel like Milky Way still was great over the pandemic. So I had that, but my photography business completely came to a halt and then, when I was starting to take clients again, probably I didn't take any more clients until I think it was September of that year. I took the whole summer off and felt what that felt like. And then I was like, oh my gosh. And then I took I took maybe just 20, 20, 30 fall family sessions over September and October and a few newborns in there, and normally I was doing holiday mini sessions where I would have 87 holiday mini sessions oh my gosh.

Speaker 1: 41:08

But it was insane how much I would do the burnout that I would create for myself, and so I stopped doing that in 2020. And then so in 2021, it was less, I was booking less. And then 2022, I was like I really feel like I still. I feel like I'm so burnt out creatively Like I don't want to pick up my camera. I want to throw my camera in the river in front of my house, like I'm. I just feel so tapped that I finally said, like I said to my husband I was like what if I just didn't do milk and honey for a year? What would that look like? He's like well, you don't really make that much in that company because you spend so much in that company. I was like, well, you're not wrong, thanks for that, okay.

Speaker 2: 41:49

Right, not wrong.

Speaker 1: 41:55

So I just said I was like okay, so January of 2023, I'm going to take a year sabbatical and see what that feels and looks like.

Speaker 2: 42:02

Wow.

Speaker 1: 42:04

And so I still I don't take clients, but I call them creativity sessions, and so I will do them for social media. I will do them for model calls for, like, if I'm doing a course, just something that keeps me with my hands on babies, with my camera in my hand, something to fill my cup. Because I am a photographer, I'm an artist, I love photography. I just didn't love how, the way I was doing it, so I had to find a new way for me to get fulfilled with it. And so taking money from people doing it for right now is not what I want to do. Yeah, maybe in the future I'll change my mind. I am totally fine with that, but right now I'm just shooting people that I love and doing things that I love because I can't.

Speaker 1: 42:55

Yeah, and it's working for you. Oh, it's so fun, I'm having so much fun. Like I've got a newborn coming. It's reigniting some creativity. Oh, yeah, like I've got a newborn coming on this Thursday and I'm like, okay, so I told my team I'm like I'm going to do this and this and this, and there's these four different ideas of these things I bought that I haven't tried. Yet I'm going to do like entirely Christmas sets because I can, and before if I had, was filling my schedule with just my client work. It's like how I run my client session and then I would have a few of these in there, but like a whole session just for me to play and do whatever I want. That's amazing.

Speaker 2: 43:30

Absolutely Right, so it's freedom.

Speaker 1: 43:32

It's complete freedom and I'm still like, I'm still making art, I'm still playing and I'm still a photographer, and I think I was really. I had some really black and white thinking that if I was an educator, I couldn't not have a photography business actively. Yeah, like, and I really was shaming myself for that and I'm like no, that's actually not the case. I'm like, right now I'm not going to have a photography business and that's okay, but you know what, for my students, I will bring in the most amazing educators. When it comes to business, I don't have to be that person. I don't have to be everything because I can't. I can't be everything. I can't do everything else that they need me to do.

Speaker 2: 44:08

If I'm trying to do this too, no, I love that and I'm glad you brought that up, because and I think the reason why that line of thinking even kind of got in your head and gets in mine and you know, I think a lot of us who run two sides of these, of this business, I feel like that is very, it's very much in there, because you're out there and you're hearing people say about that, well, she doesn't even really run a business anymore, so how can she whatever, whatever, whatever, okay.

Speaker 2: 44:37

Well, first of all, just because you're not actively running it right now doesn't mean you don't know how to do it, because you did it for years and years very successfully. So that type of knowledge doesn't go away. Right, there's things that we know is tried and true. We know what works and it's a shortcut, like we know that it's proven. It's a proven fact that the fastest way to get what you want in life is to find someone who did what you want to do successfully. You have to vet them and just do what they've done, study with them, mentor them, learn from them. That is the fastest way to do it. So we still are giving so much, like you said, you're giving back to that community. You don't have to be actively taking money from clients to do it, and that is a mindset shift for sure.

Speaker 1: 45:27

Does a Michelin star chef who no longer has a restaurant? Are they no longer a Michelin star chef Just because they no? They still feed back, exactly, so why?

Speaker 2: 45:40

are we any different? Exactly Because I'm the older, like the you know, steven Meisle, and like all of these amazing photographers, right, like just because they're not actively shooting fashion campaigns, like you know, all the time, like they used to in the nineties. You better believe, if he was doing something, I'd be like right there studying from you know what I mean. Like it is still there, and so I'm glad you brought that up, though, because I definitely haven't taken a sabbatical. I still take clients, but I have cut back significantly on purpose, because I too, my kids are older, so you know, they're all grown and I do have a little bit more capacity in that in that sense.

Speaker 2: 46:18

But I wish I would have had the, the, the thought to do it a little bit sooner. For sure I do. Oh gosh, it's you. I wish, like eight years ago, I thought that, yeah Right, hindsight, I mean timing, our timing is perfect. Honestly, like you have to trust that and I really do. But I, if anybody out there is listening to this and they're struggling with that in any way, like if you feel called to educate or mentor or whatever you know, or even if it's come something completely different let's even say you know and walking away from your photography business feels really big. I encourage you to really look at that and go deeper into that and realize that you can make your own rules and like yeah you can still be a photographer and not have to have a business.

Speaker 1: 47:07

Yeah, I will always be Right, I will always be. Have you seen my self portraits? I am having so much fun. Yes, like, I am still a photographer and I'm actually more creative now than I probably have been in years.

Speaker 2: 47:19

I agree Right, like yeah, cause I'm not exhausted all the time and just shooting for other people over and, over and over and over again. It's just that pressure that I was talking about, and we can tip that scale of pleasure and pressure yeah, and we can decide Okay, no, I want more pleasure.

Speaker 1: 47:39

Yeah, for sure, I tell you, though, the last clients take the less wine to drink.

Speaker 2: 47:43

Yeah 100% and, seeing as how I don't really drink anymore, that works for me. I know I was just having that conversation at dinner. The other night I went out for dinner with my friend for her birthday and we're all it was three of us and we all had like one cocktail and I'm like look at us, Look at us, you know we're like, we're so, we're so, we're so, we're so happy. I love it I love it.

Speaker 2: 48:07

I have one cocktail, I enjoy it, I feel good the next day. You know what I mean. Like it works so much better for me than what I was doing before. And a lot of the reason why I was drinking so much wine at night is because I was so stressed and I was taking on too much and I was trying to look for a way out and that was my escape and that is not really an escape, you guys know it just makes everything worse.

Speaker 1: 48:30

It really does it, really does it really, really does.

Speaker 2: 48:35

So I'm glad that you brought that up and I know that you do like. You mentioned your self portraits, personal projects. What other kind of personal projects do you have going on? Is that kind of what you are? What do you have like ruminating?

Speaker 1: 48:48

and percolating. What is that ruminating? Well, I just ordered another outfit for a personal project and I'm going to do. You know, diamonds are a girl's best friend. Yes, marilyn Monroe, with the tank dress and the glitter diamonds, I'm going to do that one.

Speaker 2: 49:05

Okay, yeah, I can totally see that so fun, right?

Speaker 1: 49:08

Yeah, I love it. I love it Really. Basically, I am really enjoying doing the self portraits, and this actually came about because I would model call. But then I would end up like just getting behind, and so I get these messages Like, where are these images that you took for us? And so this model call that I did for a creative project ended up being a thing that I had to complete and finish for someone else. So I felt like I was always owing someone, even though I wasn't getting paid for it, and it just felt like I'm always behind the eight ball and this I just hate this.

Speaker 1: 49:43

Talking to a friend, she's like well, why don't you just like photograph your family? And I'm like, well, they don't want to be photographed anymore. I'm like, and she's like well, why don't you just photograph yourself? And I was like, why don't I? And so I did, and what's actually been really interesting is I ended up getting my medication correct.

Speaker 1: 50:04

Earlier this year I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's and a thyroid disorder and finally got on the right medication, with some stuff for insulin resistance too, and lost almost 70 pounds now, so going through that whole entire process while being in a self portrait project over the course of the year has been remarkable on how I see myself and how I view myself, and that has been probably the kindness that I have had to deal with myself and maybe a little body dysmorphia in there too, like it's just. It's been really a mind game with myself in a good way. In a good way just learning more about myself and being kinder to myself and maybe not being such a perfectionist With not just how my appearance, but just like how I show up in life. What I put out, it's okay. It is not perfect, and that was like my biggest fear before.

Speaker 2: 51:08

Yeah. And that ties right into that imposter syndrome.

Speaker 1: 51:13

And just letting go, like when you let go of that like and just be like, okay, well, you know what? Maybe, if I just what, if everything is just C plus, what, if, like, sometimes I get A's and like, if maybe, just like, strive for a C plus. Mm-hmm, c plus is still done, yep, so I'm going to do that.

Speaker 2: 51:30

Absolutely, I know. I love that because I'm always talking about, like you know, striving for excellence instead of perfection, you know, because perfection is completely unattainable. Excellence that could change right, like so, today my level of excellence is a C plus, like that's as much as I got right now. That's my capacity. Yeah, you know, that's just kind of where I'm at. So I think you're right and I also have the same, the same metabolic issues. I've also lost weight this year and it I didn't do a self portrait project, but I love that you did because, like, through that process, because I can see how, like, what, a, what a journey.

Speaker 2: 52:12

That is really so much self awareness, like you said, but also a lot that you can just kind of take an implement as well, right, with other people, whether it's like other people, your clients or whatever, but really like just being kinder to yourself. And that body dysmorphia is really a thing. It's really a thing. I mean, like you know, our identity. We get so wrapped up with our identity and not just like what we feel makes us us mentally, but how we look. Yeah, and you too are on camera and, you know, are on socials and you're creating content and education. So there's a lot of content of you out there Right Like. So I have clients now who are like oh my God, you don't like. Are you the same person? Like they bought a course or something that I filmed two years ago and I'm like no, it's still me. I was in there all along.

Speaker 1: 53:07

Well, it's funny because my team has been pulling up on Instagram and I'm just like, like side by side, it is weird. I'm like. I'm like you guys just have to stop this, Please. Can you please stop this. It's driving me bonkers and I would make you all the new content you want, Just like don't pull up my archives, man, Stop.

Speaker 2: 53:26

I know it's weird, right? I know Like I got to re-record stuff, man, because like it's like really interesting.

Speaker 1: 53:34

I don't feel. I don't feel like I look like myself, like this self feels, like the self that I. This is the self, yes, and it's strange, like I just don't know why. There is something I don't know what. What changed over the past seven months and I don't? I don't think so much, like I know there has been weight loss, but I don't think that has been the only thing. I think it's more of like a self love that I hadn't had before and I feel like I'm so much more me now at 45 than I ever have been.

Speaker 2: 54:08

Yes, I 100% can identify with that. I say that all the time. I say it to, like, my friends, my family, my husband. I'm, like you know, at 53, I feel more like me. I feel like I did in my twenties, like I feel like I'm in my twenties again. I have more energy, I feel more in line with like me, my purpose, my everything.

Speaker 2: 54:32

It's really interesting and it is hard to put your finger on it. So I'm glad I'm not the only one. But I think that a lot of it has to do, like you said, with that self love, with that like that perspective right Of being being sort of on the other side of it, and it's that freedom, it's that letting go for me. I know it's a lot of this letting go of what other people perceive of me. That was a really big one for me, even though I didn't want to admit it. Like I would never have admitted that to you Two years ago. I would never have told you that I had that, but I can now. I know for sure that was at play so much and I think it held me back in a lot, a lot of ways. I held myself back because of it.

Speaker 1: 55:19

I wouldn't show up on camera. I felt like I was an authentic. I would watch the videos and just feel like I'm just not connecting and I don't know what it is and what it was is. I wasn't connecting with myself. Yeah, so how am I connecting? How can I connect with other people if I'm not connecting with me?

Speaker 2: 55:36

Absolutely, and it really is hard to and there's so many factors at play, right it's, you know your physical health is so tied to everything, right? Yeah, we're not just this body, we're not just our spirit, like it's really all integrated. And so when you do feel disconnected to a part of yourself, it's really hard to, really hard to integrate all those parts. That's actually something that we do in life coaching called parts integration, and it's like an exercise that you can do, like to integrate. And I remember when I was going through that training, I was like I still couldn't really get there with myself. It was really tough, like I broke down a lot in that training. Like there were, like I felt bad for some of the other, my fellow, I mean, we were kind of all going through it, but it was the first time since I went through massage therapy school that I really allowed myself to actually go there, and I think that was like a big catalyst for me realizing it's time to change something.

Speaker 2: 56:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what would you suggest, like if anyone's listening? I'm interested to know, like if anyone is, you know, listening and kind of going through that themselves and they don't feel connected to themselves. They don't feel connected to their identity or their purpose or any. You know that, that sort of thing. What would you suggest they do Inner?

Speaker 1: 56:54

child work, inner child work 100%. For about six months I had as my my screen on my phone was a picture of me at five years old, like happy Lisa and like what was her dreams Like, and just really doing some inner child work. I really feel like just getting back to remembering who you are at your core level, what delighted her, what made her happy, take her out for ice cream, take her out for like, and just have some play dates with yourself and remember who you are, remember to love yourself like you're five years old, right, and just honestly, I think just getting in touch with your inner child really, really helped me a lot. And like now, that's why I play, that's why I love to play dress up. I let myself play a dress up and take pictures of myself and put it on the internet, and I don't care if people think I'm an idiot. I am an idiot, I'm fun. You don't like me too bad, too bad, right. You're missing out, right. So stop being afraid to be who you are.

Speaker 2: 58:00

Yes, girl, give me some. Oh, my God, like I if I had like a dollar for every time I feel like I say that in so many words, right, yeah, it's especially in the last year and a half. I'm like, no, just just say it louder, just just be, be louder, be more, be the most you that you can possibly be. That's your best weapon. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 58:23

You're so afraid to shine our light, we're so afraid of being too much or too big or too bright or too noticeable, but like somebody wants your, you being showing up and you being noticeable is the reason someone else does yes.

Speaker 2: 58:40

Right, yeah, you never know who who's watching and who you're, who you're inspiring, and at the heart of it, it's little you that you are. You know that's who you're doing it for, Right. And there are side effects of other people soaking that in, and the side effect, too, of being the most you that you can possibly be is attracting dream clients. And you know really like putting your resonance out there. It's resonance I did a whole podcast on it just recently. It's about what you're putting out, what your radio beacon is. It's going to come back to you and so what are you putting out?

Speaker 2: 59:22

And a lot of people are just really not intentional about what they're emitting or they're emitting old stuff and you know things that other people's stories, basically Right. So what's your real story? What? What did I love, love, love. That you said in her child work, Because I I always kind of tell people when we're working with the unconscious mind, you have to really think about your unconscious mind. As little you like it's, it's before the age of seven, before you were programmed against your will with all kinds of stuff. That is not your story. So what's her story really? And what does she love to do? I love that you're playing dress up. That's so awesome. You're like literally doing the work. It's awesome.

Speaker 1: 1:00:03

And I, you know to touch more on, like why I love newborn photography, it's because that little baby is never going to be 12 days old again, ever. And I get to spend that day with that baby, right, I get to be part of that little miracle, that celebration, that fraction of time in a family's life, and I know how fleeting it is and I get to document that. And so those are the clients I attract, the ones that are so excited about being parents. Maybe they've gone through infertility, maybe they've gone through struggle or loss. Those are the clients I attract that are so present at their sessions that I get to be so present. I pour my love into those sessions and that's why I do what I do. That's why that's why I love newborns, that's why I love babies, and I will probably do newborns until I hang up my camera, because it's magic.

Speaker 2: 1:00:55

Yes, oh, so good. So so so good. Okay, I think we keep you here all day talking about that stuff, but let's wrap it up. Let's tell people where do you like to connect with people. I know you've got a workshop coming up, so I want you to talk a little bit about that. Let people know, and you have the podcast too, so let everybody know where they can find you and where you like best to connect with people.

Speaker 1: 1:01:16

Awesome, Well, we are over on Instagram at Milky Way Fun. Tiktok at Milky Way Fun. Facebook at the Milky Way. But we also have the online retreat, which is a conference for newborn photographers. We actually have two. We've got one in June for family photographers and one in January for newborn photographers, maternity photographers as well, and basically it's just this amazing online conference where you can learn at your own pace, on your own schedule, on your own time, with thousands of other students in a private Facebook community and, honestly, it's just my love of bringing the most incredible educators to the platform and just introducing them to new people and just helping students become the artists they always wanted to be, without spending thousands and thousands of dollars traveling to travel to places that they're going to go and maybe forget the information two days later.

Speaker 1: 1:02:11

So we've got that one coming up in January and you can come find me on the Art in Soul show. I've got a podcast there. Renee was one of our guests. We show up every single week. Come over on YouTube too. Basically, I'm everywhere. I'm having fun. It's awesome.

Speaker 2: 1:02:27

Awesome. I'll link to all of that, obviously in the show notes as well. So you guys, definitely, if you don't know Lisa, go connect with her because you're going to love her. So thank you so much for being here. This was awesome Always awesome chatting with you.

Speaker 1: 1:02:43

Thank you so much for having me. It's been such a pleasure.

Speaker 2: 1:02:45

I told you guys that that was going to be a jam packed business. Woo, all the things. I loved this conversation and some of the takeaways that I think you can walk away with are. Number one if you hear nothing else from this podcast today is please lean in to who you are. Stop dimming your light for other people on the internet or in your life or whatever you know. I talk about that a lot on this podcast and I'm glad that she brought this up to you and hopefully you heard that.

Speaker 2: 1:03:17

I want you to show up. I want you to be visible. I want you to be the most you that you possibly can be, because, if not, you're not just doing yourself a disservice, but you're doing a disservice to your clients, your family, your friends, everyone part of who you are. That is your gift to the world, and we're only here for a short time. Use all that you have and be the most you that you can be.

Speaker 2: 1:03:39

Another takeaway is don't wait until the house is on fire to ask for help. What are the breadcrumbs? Pay attention, be intentional, listen to the signs and listen to your intuition. Okay, be in alignment and understand that you are guided always, but you have to listen and, lastly, do the inner child work. If you are struggling with your identity and losing yourself, not feeling connected to your purpose and your why, this is a fantastic way to get back in touch with who you really are and remembering what little you needed and wanted, and being the hero for yourself.

Speaker 2: 1:04:19

So thank you one more time for listening. I truly appreciate you guys. I hope you have a phenomenal week. I love you. I'm sending you love and light and all the goodness, and I will see you back here next week. And don't forget to share this podcast with at least three of your friends. If you thought it was helpful and you loved it, share it with your friends or at least put it on your Instagram story and make sure you tag me so I can see it and share it too. Bye, guys. Yes.