Embracing Unconventional Success Through Your Unique Energetic Blueprint with Holly Herbig

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Tried and True with a Dash of Woo, where we blend rock-solid tips with a little bit of magic. I'm Renee Bowen, your host, life and business coach and professional photographer at your service. We are all about getting creative, diving into your business and playing with manifestation over here. So are you ready to get inspired and have some fun? Let's dive in. Hey, hey, I'm Renee Bowen, your host. Thanks for joining me again here on Tried and True with a Dash of Woo, and I am so excited, as always, to continue growing this community with you guys. Thank you for being a part of this journey.

Speaker 1: 0:37

Today I have such a fun guest. Her name is Holly Marie and she's a certified trauma-informed life and success coach with a diverse toolbox of spiritual practices and experiences. She carries certifications in human design, and that is her main concentration, but also breathwork, meditation, reiki, eft and hypnosis, so you know we're going to have a lot to talk about. Holly has had 10 years of experience as a multimillion-dollar business owner and three years of six-figure success in the online space. She's incredibly proud of achieving traditional success metrics without muddling her energy or getting lost in the zombie-like hustle. She's determined to demonstrate this path to others like her who prefer dancing in the rain to sitting in a meeting. I don't know about you, but that is definitely speaking to my soul and I am excited for you guys to listen to this really amazing conversation between Holly and myself. Holly, thank you so much for being here with us today. I'm very excited about this conversation.

Speaker 2: 1:36

Thank you for having me. It's always such a privilege to share in anybody's space and anybody's audience, so thank you for giving me the time to do that. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 1:45

You're so welcome and I love that we're in completely different time zones. You're in Australia or Sydney. Where exactly are you?

Speaker 2: 1:54

I am just outside of Canberra, which for most people, it's a surprise to learn that Canberra is in fact the capital of Australia and Sydney is not the capital. So yeah, I'm in the future, I am a day ahead and it's looking pretty good. Tomorrow's going to be great everyone.

Speaker 1: 2:09

That is good to know. Yeah, I know I love that. I think it's so fun. When I went to Japan a couple of years ago a few years ago actually now time is weird, it's before COVID but I was there and I was trying to get back in touch with my family and I'm like I'm time traveling. I am ahead of you, but Australia is definitely on my bucket list, so maybe one day I will get there and meet in person.

Speaker 1: 2:31

So I love to, like you have a lot of the same interests modalities, certifications and things like that but your concentration is a lot of human design as well and you speak to that a lot. I would love to kind of just dive right in and talk about what ways do you think that unconventional thinking because I'm a really big believer in unconventional thinking I know my audience mainly creatives. We are sort of known for this unconventional thinking and I know I have a lot of Annie Jen's in my audience as well. Surprise, surprise, right. What ways do you believe that unconventional thinking has contributed to your business success and how we can embrace it so that we can all become more successful?

Speaker 2: 3:22

Yeah, I think that my journey through that has probably been a little bit different from most people's, which is I'm a manifestor right For those of you who are into human design. So that's not abnormal. I haven't had my coffee yet today, can you tell. It's not abnormal for a manifestor to do things in a very kind of offbeat way. But I did have success in the conventional way. I was not a person who was kind of struggling to make it. It was certainly hard.

Speaker 2: 3:52

I came from a business background where I was a business consultant for many, many years. I then owned my own cafe and events business and it was successful because I followed all of the conventional goals. I followed all of the strategies. I did all of the right things. The business financially was successful. I was able to. I bought a bankrupt business and I was able to take it from bankruptcy to over $2 million annual turnover in two years. Like, on the outside it was very, very perfect. The outside it was very, very perfect, very, very shiny.

Speaker 2: 4:29

And what I individually within me experienced was I did not feel successful at all, I did not feel fulfilled, I did not feel peaceful, I did not feel satisfied. There was zero joy. In fact, it was an incredibly traumatic experience for me to go through that, because it constantly demanded that I self-betray in order to make that work. And, moving away from that, I sold that business and eventually did make my way into the online space and initially I actually did exactly the same things. I went into business coaching. I did all the right strategies right. I was like, oh, this digital space has got a whole bunch of of different rules, but I'll nail them, I'll get them, I'll figure it out, I'll work out the strategies. And we know that in the online space, every second person out there is standing from the rooftops yelling I've got the strategy. I've got the one strategy that is going to make you succeed. So I learned a whole bunch of different strategies and I put them in place and I got that business into the elusive six-figure business model and I realized, oh, I'm literally just repeating exactly the same cycle. I'm still not satisfied. I don't feel successful. Everyone's telling me this thing is amazing and it's successful and it's so great and you should be so proud. And I was like I don't want to show up for this. I hate was like I don't want to show up for this. I hate client calls. I don't want to be facilitating my programs. I don't like this at all.

Speaker 2: 5:51

So it was a big leap for me to step away from that conventional thinking, conventional strategy, conventional lifestyle that had yielded all of the results that I should have wanted, and jump off the cliff into just doing it in a very different way. I was already very much into spirituality. I'd already gone through a huge spiritual awakening, so of course that was wrapped in. I think whenever you've got somebody who's into the spiritual sphere, there comes kind of a reckoning time for all of us where we have to decide whether we're going to keep that as a private, personal thing or whether we're going to allow ourselves to authentically show up as the weird woo-woos that we are. Yep, and for me, I just threw it all out. I actually shut down my business completely and went into what turned out to be an eight-month retreat, a rest.

Speaker 2: 6:48

I just disappeared and I did a whole bunch of certifications in that time, purely because I wanted to experience mastery for myself in the areas that had fascinated me. I had no intention of using them for anything at all. Human design was one of those things, and I came out at the other side of that and I created what we have now, which was at the time I started out just being a human design teacher like everybody else. And then, very quickly, within weeks, I felt that same pattern happening again. I was like, oh, I'm just doing the way everybody else is doing it, I'm just doing this in a conventional way, in the normal way, and I don't want to do that. I already don't feel satisfied, I already don't feel successful. The only people that I wanted to speak to was manifestors, and at that time that had not been done in human design. Nobody else was speaking to only one type, nobody else was building a community for only one energy type. So it was a big risk to ostracize that manifestos are only nine percent of the population. So I was risking ostracizing 91 of my audience that I'd spent so long building to get to this place.

Speaker 2: 8:00

Um, and of course, it was exactly the right, right path and I've followed that now for several years in always going against the grain, in always being a really expansive thinker and looking at what other people are doing and taking that to sit with myself first and say, but does that feel successful to me? Does that actually feel authentic and aligned to me, and if it doesn't, then it doesn't matter how successful it's going to be or how successful it is for other people. It's not correct for me. And now I feel incredibly successful in my business. I feel incredibly satisfied and incredibly fulfilled in my business, and the beautiful thing is that that actually created a doorway for the human design community. That soon after I started speaking to one energy type, a whole bunch of other people did as well, and now we have communities specifically for every single energy type out there. There are multiple communities for every single energy type, and I love that. I love that I was able to inadvertently contribute that just by allowing myself to be unusual.

Speaker 1: 9:08

That's so cool, okay. So, and I know that it's sort of a manifestor thing too, like you said, when you went away for eight months, like it's sort of a manifestor thing to you know, need that sort of retreat, but you were probably also really really burnt out, like you said. So, like, do you think that so all of you guys listening who are, who might be manifestors first of all, like she said, it's it is. It's a very unique like. Even in my coaching, I only like in my group coaching right now, I only have one manifestor. I only know one manifestor personally in my life. It's not like I'm a generator. I'm surrounded by manifesting generators, literally manifesting generators just flock to me.

Speaker 1: 9:52

It's hilarious. I have a lot of energy, but I'm a generator and so these manifestors, you guys are really like it's a whole different thing and I find it really fascinating. Again, like this is not my specialty and I don't necessarily want it to be, but I'm fascinated with this whole like process of learning about the energy types and you know the sort of hallmarks and what kind of makes you guys tick. And I know, though, that part of that is that rest. So if you're a manifestor out there, like, can you speak to that part of that? Is that rest? So if you're a manifester out there, like, can you speak to that part? A little bit to the manifestors, like it's very common for them to feel, from what I know and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but you know to feel like they are sort of the out on the outskirts and don't necessarily fit in and they're they're sort of like not really understood, especially as kids a lot, and also they need rest.

Speaker 2: 10:48

Yeah, the manifesto experience is fundamentally, on every level, completely different from everyone else's and I think that every manifesto who comes into human design and starts to have this experience of self-awareness through this system always arrives at that point pretty quickly where it feels like validation that all of these ways that we knew that we were unusual, we knew we were weird, we knew we were different, and most of us have spent our lives just trying to do things the way everybody else does them and hating it. Really it destroys us to do that. So human design provides a really beautiful language for manifestors in particular, but for everyone to sit back into and realize, oh, I assumed that being different was wrong, but it's not actually wrong. And a lot of that comes down to those two key factors with manifestors. First is that we have a quote unquote closed energy. It's not actually closed, it's just really heavy, really dense energy. It's designed to be magnetic, so it pushes people away or pulls people in, and we are the only energy type that has that. Every other energy type has some form of open and inclusive energy. And so immediately when people meet manifestors, there's this sense of like. And so immediately when people meet manifestors, there's this sense of like. Well, you're different. I can't really get a read on you. That requires the manifestor to inform. We have to be speaking, we have to be saying things out loud with our voice, because that is the access that people have to us. But then, additionally, we have this really unusual energy usage.

Speaker 2: 12:24

We operate on what we call a creative rest cycle. That creative rest cycle is so unusual because it's so inconsistent and it's so extreme. So a manifestor, in our creative cycle we get what we call creative urges. It's like the wild idea, the vision right and a manifestor will go into like a mania. It's an obsession where we are able to initiate and create and birth many, many things, or just one really huge thing in a short space of time. So it's almost like this sped up, intensified pregnancy process that we've received this urge, this download, this download. We grow it, we build it within ourselves and then we birth it out into the world. And then we're exhausted because the energetic and physical process of doing that is huge.

Speaker 2: 13:15

Most manifestors don't really sleep or eat much during a creative cycle. We can work 20 hours a day, we work in a frenzy. We can produce several years of work in a week and the human body is not designed to sustain that. So we then go into the rest cycle, where we disconnect. We're physically recovering, yes, but more importantly, we're actually just disconnecting from everything around us because we're making space within ourselves for whatever the next creative cycle is going to be. But we don't know what that creative cycle is going to be, when it's going to occur, how big it's going to be. That's just as much of a surprise to us as it is to everybody else.

Speaker 2: 13:58

So, in reality, manifestors are actually resting as a way of life. We rest 80% of the time. We're only in our creative cycle 20% of the time. And that's part of the difficulty for manifestors, because we get so celebrated when we're creating, because it's so inspiring and it's so big and it's so magnetic and so engaging that we get a lot of conditioning around our rest that it's wrong for us to rest for all of these periods. And certainly that's not something that's understood by a society that views rest as something that you do a little bit each day. Manifestors can rest for five months, six months, 12 months. I've heard of manifestors who rest for years at a time and then will do a huge creative urge after that. So we're kind of at the very extreme end of the human experience.

Speaker 1: 14:55

It's so interesting too because, and also because you know you're in a generator world, basically right. Like you said, you know you're in a generator world, basically right. Like you said, generators are the most popular, for lack of a better word, the word's not coming to me, but we have the most of us in society.

Speaker 2: 15:14

Yeah, the highest statistical representation.

Speaker 1: 15:17

Yes, thank you, thank you. Words are definitely escaping me today, but, yeah, so there's so many generators and then so many mani gens, and you know that energy tends to sort of run, everything sort of that. You see, and it can feel, I'm assuming, like as a manifestor or even as a projector, because, like I have two projector kids and I didn't know that they were projectors, my twins are projectors. Because I have two projector kids and I didn't know that they were projectors, my twins are projectors and I didn't know that they were until a couple of years ago, when I started diving into human design, and one of the things that my husband and I would always say and mainly my husband, because he's a mani-gen he would always be like why are they resting? Why are they napping? Are they sick? What's wrong with them? Why do they need so much rest? And I'm like I don't know, but like we need to leave them alone, like I just intuitively I knew that that that was just like something that they needed, but for him it was like what's wrong, and so I can imagine you would never have experienced that. Yeah, no, never. Like Andrew and I, my husband and I, we go, go, go, go, go, go, go go.

Speaker 1: 16:20

And I feel so bad now that, looking back on our vacations, oh my God, like we, we dragged those projectors around like rag dolls on our vacations because we thought we were like giving them like these amazing experiences and like you know these road trips that would last like four or five weeks and we would only have like 24 hours in each place. And we're like look at this, do this, look at the national monument Okay, get in the car, let's go. And those poor kids were like in the back seat, just like vegging out to you know the DVD. And they were. You know they were having fun, but like in retrospect, they were like, yeah, that was exhausting. And by the time they got to be teenagers they were like can we just like take a like a relaxing vacation? Can we just like go to one place?

Speaker 2: 17:07

Where we just have a nap every afternoon and maybe get breakfast.

Speaker 1: 17:11

And Andrew and I were like, oh, okay, yeah, I guess I don't know what the fun is in that, but okay, so it's just really interesting. But I would imagine that being a manifester in particular and needing these longer periods of rest, like you said, how does that? Like I could see that sort of those reasons, or you know what I mean. So how do you, how do you sort of navigate that basically, right, I mean, obviously learning about your human design is a big step, but like, how do you ease people through that?

Speaker 2: 17:55

Yeah, it's very common for manifestors to have been misdiagnosed as bipolar and a seasonal depression or even major depressive disorders. And I know of dozens, dozens and dozens of manifestors who have kind of swum in those human design waters for a while, only to realize, oh, this was never actually a mental illness, this was never a chemical imbalance in my brain. This is always just the way that I'm actually meant to be, and I think that that's true of any system of self-awareness. Human design is one and it is epic and it is amazing, and of course, we have this whole slew of other systems as well. So it's whatever resonates with you is correct for you.

Speaker 2: 18:41

But any system of self-awareness or esoteric system of knowledge that gives us access into more of ourselves, I understand myself more and, as a result, I give myself more permission to just be who I am and to let go of all of those things that I've collected along the way that told me that I needed to be different than who I am.

Speaker 2: 19:05

I mean, that's where the real journey is at, that's where the real beauty is at, and I know a lot of people find that in human design because it's quite direct, clear, easy to follow language and that's a really, really gorgeous thing that has so many ripple effects into your life, even on that super simple level of just realizing like, oh my gosh, I'm a generator and my kids are projectors, like what. That's pretty different, right? Just that, the ability to understand the basics about somebody else's energy type, to know that, even though they are so different from me, it's fully correct for them and I can love them in that place and I can celebrate them being in that place, and that just brings them more to life. I think that there's so much healing that is available in everyday life just from even understanding your energy type, let alone the implications that it has for things like business and money and alignment and all of those things.

Speaker 1: 20:19

Yeah, it all starts with you, right? I'm always talking about that, like how our businesses are a reflection of what's going on internally and you know, if you're feeling, like you said before, burnt out and dissatisfied, like that is something I see and I hear so much of in my communities. You know so many creative people are, you know they kind of fall into their work because they just happen to be good at it and they make it look easy, right, like it's. I always joke because my husband's an actor and I was one of those people, that was one of those kids who kind of grew up thinking I could do that Right and as a generator, I think that's kind of like just my thing anyway, because, like, I see a lot of things and I'm like I could probably do that and I am really good about teaching myself stuff. I will say that. But then I marry an actor and then I realize, oh yeah, no, you just make it look easy because you're good at it and you've also put in the work, you've put in your 10,000 hours and you know you've, you've honed your skills just like anything else, and so creatives I find that a lot. Photographer is everything. We make it look easy because we love it. It lights us up, you know, like when we're really living in our alignment and it feels good, and then all of a sudden it's like, oh, hang on, now I got to like figure out how to make money at this. I got to figure out how to not like be so bogged down with work that I can't spend time with my family, which definitely happened to me because, as a generator, I said yes to everything in the very beginning of my business, and, you know, pretty soon, the business that I started so that I could have time with my kids turned into the business that took all my time away from my kids, and so that's one of the reasons why I'm so passionate about helping people, helping creatives, you know, not fall into that trap.

Speaker 1: 22:14

I think it's definitely something that we are very prone to, very prone to, you know, wanting to be all the things to everybody else that people pleasing stuff will come out to, because as artists, it's very subjective as well. So you want people to like what you're doing, and then it gets really hard to, you know, continue to listen to yourself, and that's what I think is so cool about human design is it gets you in your body, like you start listening to your intuition, and it's that, it's a. It's like this really cool self-awareness tool, right, like there's a lot of tools that you can put in your tool belt, but I think it's one of the best tools for self-awareness from what I can see, and I think that it's definitely something I'll continue to learn about as time goes on, because it's such a huge, huge topic and it's just helped me so much, just even my personal life, as well as just internally, like knowing, knowing about my type, my energy type, my profile, you know what that sort of means and getting that, that, oh, like you said before, that's okay. That's why, you know, and even though I'm not a manifester, I've always, always from a very young age, felt the need to be different, like I wanted to be different.

Speaker 1: 23:29

There's something that must be a gate, or something that I've got, you know, that sort of like wants to push boundaries, that wants to zig when everyone else sags or whatever, and it's something that I think, the more I lean into, I see those results, and so I want to speak to really quickly, too, about what you said in the beginning, about how it might have seemed counterproductive for you to really niche down to this manifestor only communication, this, speaking to them and working with them. But that's where you found the freedom and the light and I think a lot of people get very scared about following that joy, following those nudges. What would you say to creatives, especially mani-gens, who have all the things happening in their brain all the time and who get lots of downloads and feel like they want to do all the things? How can they discern right, what's really for them? That's a big one.

Speaker 2: 24:26

Yeah, I mean the human design methodology of looking at that is that we all have what's called an inner authority. So there is one energy center in your body. It's never in your head, it's always in your body, which is a challenge for everybody, because we come from a society that has idealized the logical mind and so any kind of somatic body connection work is always difficult, and so any kind of somatic body connection work is always difficult. But we have an energy center in our body that is designed to be the decision maker for us, and I think that what a lot of people misinterpret about that when they first come into human design is that like, oh, this is the way I have to make decisions and like, well, maybe it might work out.

Speaker 2: 25:06

The reality is that when you use your inner authority, the deeper you can get into connection with that. You are actually always making the correct decision, always. It's not a potluck. It's not like, oh, maybe this might work out better for me if I make this decision with my emotions rather than with my head. No, no, no. If you are making decisions with the correct energy center and following that insight and that wisdom and that authority, it is always drawing you forward, and the reason for that is that we have this little energy center in the body right in the center of the chart. It's a diamond and it's called the G center. The G center is this place that has this weird thing called the magnetic monopole. It means it's a one-way drawing in magnet. So the human design chart is actually built off the g-center. That's one of the first things in your chart that gets formed at your birth and everything else kind of flows out from that the g-center is always connecting you to your higher self, always connecting you to your higher self.

Speaker 2: 26:06

It's it's got a magnetic pull in that direction. So it is your divine, spiritual, higher self. It's got a magnetic pull in that direction. So it is your divine, spiritual, higher self, deepest truth, soul connection. The G center is actually governing your inner authority. Whatever your inner authority might be and we have multiple authorities, there's emotional and splenic and sapral and ego and a whole bunch of them but whatever your inner authority is, the G Center is governing it, and so they're working in tandem. They're working in this energetic communication and that's been one of the most pivotal things for me in, of course, in my business, but in my relationships, in my marriage, in my parenting, in my health, in my exercise, in the opportunities that I engage myself in, in the places that I go, using my inner authority, because that's now so normalized for me every decision that I make is a good decision, and in business in particular, so much of business success comes down to good decision-making.

Speaker 2: 27:07

So much of business success comes down to that. A bad decision can derail you hugely in business, and I have experienced that time and time again. Right, I'm no like superior being on that front. I've made really bad decisions that have gotten me in really big trouble in business. But I think that, as a society, what we've said about business is that there's one homogenized way to make a good decision that, okay, here's the strategic way to make good decisions in your business. And if you're making those decisions, then you're great.

Speaker 2: 27:36

So, if you're hustling, it's great. If you're investing big, it's great, right. If you're scaling, it's great. Always, these are good decisions in business. Human design says no. What is a good decision for you is going to be different from the person next to you, because you have this individualised blueprint for your energy that says for your highest good, for your soul, for your highest self, this is the decision that is going to keep you in alignment with that, and oftentimes that is a decision that is completely at odds with everyone else, right, but it always, always creates really, really beautiful things always creates these really expansive outcomes and I think people are very quick to jump over the inner authority in human design because it's hard.

Speaker 2: 28:26

It's really hard to condition yourself out of that too hard. Yeah, it's really hard to condition yourself out of that too, because the the mind feels so stable and so certain, so logical. Right I, I know how to make the right decision because I thought about it, I thought it through. Oh, maybe you are not designed to think it through.

Speaker 1: 28:41

Maybe you are designed to process it in a different way and then work on trusting that that is definitely a big big thing that I see coming up over and over again in my communities online just in general right Is that is, this is getting caught in this, and that's why I said, like, that's why I love. One of the reasons why I love human design is that it is about getting into the body right. It's about listening to that inner authority. So that's really interesting. I didn't know that about the G Center I love learning new things about human design. That's why I love having different experts on the show, because it's like helps me fast track the things that I want to learn about human design as well.

Speaker 1: 29:28

And that's so fascinating to me about just that whole transition, too, that you had between, like the traditional way, like you said before, like really, you had that unique experience of spending a lot of time in the traditional and then sort of moving into this Like, what do you think was your like? What was the catalyst for you? That sort of like pushed you through that doorway, I guess. I mean, I know you talked about the major burnout, but was that it or was it something kind of like before that? And also I know that a lot of people are dealing with that, depending obviously, their human design type, will come into play, like you said, their own unique blueprint. But is there something you could speak to that would help them, if someone is kind of dealing with that right now as well?

Speaker 2: 30:20

Yeah, for me, it was hurting me to do it that way, and I arrived at a place where I was tired of hurting myself. I was tired of being in the same loop with the same patterns over and over again, being hurt by other people, hurting myself, succeeding in all of the ways that I should be succeeding but not enjoying it. And that for me for those who are into astrology a lot of that occurred for me over my Saturn return, right, and that for me for those who are into astrology, a lot of that occurred for me over my Saturn return. Yeah, so that kind of 27 to 30 period where, for most people, we have that huge identity breakdown of what the heck have I been doing with my life. Like all of my karmic patterns are now going back and I'm facing them, and so I think that we astrologically have those placements throughout our timeline to catalyze us further. Right, we've got the first Saturn return. We've got the first Saturn return. We've got the Uranus opposition, the Chiron return. We've got a whole bunch of slotted times in our life where it's, if you haven't been moving out of the things that are incorrect for you, you're going to be motivated to do that right. It's going to happen.

Speaker 2: 31:27

But I think that there is this really necessary space for each of us to have more of that connection to the body, to start paying attention to what is going on in the body, because the body is always the wise keeper. It's always the most insightful aspect of your self-communication. And, again, human design the language that human design puts to that is that we have a signature theme and a not-self theme for every single energy type. So we're all a little bit different, but based on your energy type, the signature theme is going to be the frequency or the emotion that you feel in your body when you are in alignment. It's like the green light from your body that says this is good, what we're doing here is good, do more of this, keep going in this direction. And then the not self theme is the opposite. It's the warning signal when we're out of alignment, when something is trying to pull us away from what is correct for us. It's that red light that says stop, turn around, go in a different direction, because this is not actually working for us. And that's the easiest, I think, kind of the most direct, almost foolproof way to just know is this actually working for me or is it not working for me?

Speaker 2: 32:43

Because all of those external things can be so tantalizing and so engaging, especially for our sacral beings like our generators and our manifesting generators, who can work so hard and so consistently and do so many things, and it's almost like you get this pseudo satisfaction right, like I'm working so hard, isn't it good? It's good, I'm working really, really hard and so I feel good about this. It's going to work, but actually you don't. So for our generators and our manifesting generators, that signature theme is satisfaction, but the not self theme is frustration, and I see that. I imagine you do too.

Speaker 2: 33:25

I see that in business owners left, right and centre to generate manifesting generators Like it's great, I'm doing all of the things, that I'm working really hard and it's definitely going to work, but actually I just feel frustrated. I'm frustrated that it's not the way I want it to be, that it's not working in the way that I want it to work, that I I'm not satisfied by any of this. There's your indicator that, regardless of whether this thing is externally succeeding or not, it's not in alignment. For you, it's the stoplight, turn around, go in a different direction.

Speaker 2: 33:55

For our projectors, those themes are success and bitterness, which is super interesting for our projectors, and we see heaps of projectors in the online space who have stepped into the coaching arena, because projectors are natural guides.

Speaker 2: 34:10

They are natural guides, they're natural teachers, so of course, of course, they'll align with that. But a lot of them are doing it and feeling really bitter. My clients are using me, I'm being taken advantage of. I'm not being compensated in the way that I want to be. It's not succeeding as much as I want it to Our reflectors, which is super, super rare only 1% of the population. But for our reflectors, the signature theme is surprise and the not-self theme is disappointment. For our manifestors, myself included, our signature theme is peace. We're really chasing freedom. We're chasing peace and quiet.

Speaker 2: 34:47

Our not-self theme is anger, and if you have ever seen an angry manifesto, you'll know it's pretty volatile, it's pretty volcanic, and there are plenty of manifestos out there who, I promise you, are angry all the time, all the time, deep seething, resentment, that reaches kind of a critical threshold and then they explode.

Speaker 2: 35:11

And that's for me, that has been the easiest guidepost to use in my business in particular. Is this thing that I'm doing, is this strategy that I'm using, this thing, that I'm creating these people, that I'm engaging with this goal that I'm working towards? Does it feel peaceful? Am I actually experiencing peace? Does it feel free to me? Or do I feel angry and resentful about this? And there have been plenty of times when I've entered myself into something that seemingly should be a really great thing to be doing, but I'm actually just angry and I have to put it down and stop and go in a different direction. And so, particularly for people like our managers, who are so good at doing 50 different things at once and that's amazing for them Do that, do more of it. Multitask, throw several balls up in the air, try to catch all of them that's great for you, but if you're feeling frustrated by that, the things that you're juggling in the air are not the things that you need to be putting your energy into.

Speaker 1: 36:06

Yeah, that tuning in is so, so important and getting real with yourself, too, and not like running from it and masking it, because that's kind of what I see a lot of, too, is especially with the generators and mani gens, because it's like, oh no, no, no, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, everything's fine, everything's fine. And inside they're just like literally dying Right. And I've, I've been there, like I've definitely been there, and I know, like when I started learning about my you know, human design and energy type and really looking honestly at all the things that I'm saying yes to and you know, I've never really been one to have a hard time with people pleasing our boundaries, but it was the work. For me, the work was dopamine. That was my drug, right, like, so the work was my drug, um, and it still can be like that is the addiction, that's my thing, like everybody, I think, like you know if you want to speak about it in that way, but for me that's what it felt like. It felt like a true addiction, like if I wasn't working all the time, I wasn't valuable, and I also realized that I was using it to numb out, to not look at what was actually really happening in my life because I wasn't tuning in to my body. I was living up here and just acting like everything was fine.

Speaker 1: 37:28

So when you start to really honestly, honestly look at what's going on without judgment too like and that's what I've always talked about with my coaching students is that this isn't about beating yourself up, cracking the whip on yourself.

Speaker 1: 37:42

It's about the self-awareness and self-discovery and also being this neutral observer, like looking at it and saying that's interesting, I was doing that, you know, and and instead of getting so fired up about it and charged up about it and angry or upset about it or whatever, and letting those unconscious programming things pop up, but being curious about it and saying, oh, okay, yeah, I wonder what that's about. Hmm, okay, let me, let me see where this will take me, right, because there's so much cool stuff in that possibility of curiosity and neutral observer, you know, and not like, not feeling like you have to be a certain thing this perfectionism thing especially is rampant is, you know, in so many of us and a lot of it is all this programming right. And so what I love about human design too, it's that self-discovery, but it's also like undoing. It helps you undo all the things that have been done to you against your will you know that you did to yourself against your own will.

Speaker 1: 38:51

Exactly, exactly Like you participate and and then you can go. Okay, yeah, I'm not gonna do that anymore, but but a lot of it I feel like I don't know. It kind of makes me a little sad to sometimes that not as many people know about it, but I do feel like and I know that it's a timely thing you know, like, astrologically everything, you know, that human design is becoming more quote unquote mainstream, because that's by design, no pun intended, right.

Speaker 2: 39:25

Yeah, absolutely there's. I mean, without getting into too much detail about it, there's something in human design called the seven-year paradigm shift, which, when human design was recorded back in the 80s it was recorded then that from 2020 to 2027, we would undergo a seven-year collective paradigm shift where we are moving from the ajna in human design so the mind being the place of decision-making, the place of decision making, the place of logic, the place of reliance, the place of connection and we're moving into the emotional center being our center of being. So we're moving away from this, um, that kind of like toxic masculinity, capitalistic, patriarchal structure, and moving more into a collective contribution society where we're all individualized in our ability to regulate and identify but we contribute our gifts to the collective. So for those of us who have been in human design for a while, it was no surprises at all that we hit 2020 and the world exploded. We were like, okay, well, we possibly didn't predict that it was going to be a pandemic, but heck, let's go. And we've seen that movement. We're now halfway through and we're seeing that.

Speaker 2: 40:42

Of course, it makes sense that there's been this huge uptake of human design into more of that collective psyche and collective language throughout this time, and a big part of the human design process is the deconditioning. But that's represented in other systems too. It's shadow work or limiting beliefs or wounding right. We see this concept of needing to heal through every esoteric system In human design. It's just called conditioning and deconditioning, and I think one of the saddest parts for each of us as individuals is that even that very simplistic process of the signature theme and the not self theme, as I was talking about for each energy type, all of us has conditioning around, those feelings in our body that manifest as our condition to believe that anger is bad. Generators and manifesting generators are condition to believe that anger is bad. Generators and manifesting generators are conditioned to believe that frustration is bad. Projectors are conditioned to feel that bitterness is bad, and so we have these decades of life experience within ourselves that hopefully, ideally, our children will not have to experience because we now have understanding of it. But we as individuals all have this history behind us of disengaging from our body when our body gives us the signal that we're actually needing to receive, and so there is a journey that we all need to go through of reconnecting with that, and the only way to do it is through self-compassion. You have to do it through self-love. Criticism is not going to get you anywhere. It's only going to amplify that conditioning further.

Speaker 2: 42:16

So for me it's been really helpful to frame that experience for myself, as I had adaptations. Right, I had conditioning and adaptations and these kind of screwed up, quirky ways of doing things, because I needed that at the time. That was the best way at the time that I could look after myself. So I was trying to do the best that I could with what I had, and that's wonderful and I was unaware of that because it was working for me. Now that I'm aware of it, it's because I have a different capacity and I can change that. Now I have the resources, now I have the grounding, now I have the awareness to be able to do it differently. In essence, that conditioning that I had no longer serves me.

Speaker 2: 43:07

What a celebration. How brilliant I grew. I moved forward, I've changed myself so much, I've healed myself so much that I now no longer need that conditioning and I can move into doing things in a different way and deepen this relationship that I have with my body. But in reality, we're all going to be doing that for the rest of our lives.

Speaker 1: 43:29

We live in a conditioned society.

Speaker 2: 43:29

We're never going to reach a point where we're all going to be doing that for the rest of our lives. Yeah, we live in a conditioned society. We're never going to reach a point where we're completely free of those things. So putting that criticism and self judgment down is going to help you a lot.

Speaker 1: 43:39

Yeah, I mean like if beating yourself up worked, it would have right I mean it would have worked by now.

Speaker 2: 43:45

Yes, I mean, you know you could, you got?

Speaker 1: 43:46

proof. You know by now. Yes, I mean, you know you could. You got proof. You know your unconscious mind really wants proof. Okay, well, it would have worked, and so it's obviously not working.

Speaker 1: 43:57

So what else could there be that you know might be? Leads you to a better path, right, get you to a better outcome, and I love that. Like so, really that self-compassion I think is huge. Like so, really, that self-compassion I think is huge and I love how the energy, the collective energy, is supportive of that moving as we even get closer to 2027 and beyond, right, like so that's such a huge, huge part of it. So I could talk about this all day.

Speaker 1: 44:24

I do want to ask you, before we start to kind of wrap up you know, there's this whole sort of like discussion that I hear a lot of anyway about how well, how can I be in alignment and how can I? You know, yeah, that's all great and that's wonderful that you know I can learn more about myself and become more aligned and start to listen to myself. But I think that there's this very black and white feeling connotation where it comes to feeling aligned and, quote, unquote, spiritual and making money, right, there's like, oh, I can't be both or you know, because there's all these societal sort of things, right, and I speak to this a lot, but I'd love to sort of like dive into your brain a little bit and kind of see how you balance that pursuit of financial success, which I think is amazing, with maintaining your personal wellbeing and your spiritual growth and alignment.

Speaker 2: 45:28

I mean, money is interesting. Money is such a buzz topic at the moment. I love it. For those who are into numerology, we're in a collective year, eight right now, so eight is all about money, baby.

Speaker 2: 45:39

So I love that we've kind of moved headlong into the discussion about money in so many places this year and we need to have a reckoning with that relationship, because the way that we have viewed money and used money and chased money is now outdated Exactly what I was just saying before. It used to serve us, it's served our social needs and our individual needs. Now it doesn't. And I know a lot of people really in the spiritual spaces in particular will demonize money, right, like oh, you don't need it. And then we've got people right at the other end of the spectrum who are like, if you're spiritual, then you should be the billionaire, because you're the person who's got integrity with making money. There is a whole spectrum in between where pretty much the rest of us actually exist, yeah, in that like middle gray area.

Speaker 2: 46:28

So to money is the resource of survival in our society. We have now reached the point where, because money is the metric by which our society has chosen to survive, could have been anything, could have been iron, could have been copper, could have been dirt, could have been slugs, right, but we chose gold. That's what we chose hundreds of years ago. It's gold, and so we've now developed to a point where, if you don't have money, you don't survive. It is necessary and for me that's enough, just first and foremost, to step outside of this. Well, like as a spiritual person, I shouldn't be seeking money because it should just be about collective contribution. No, I'm a human and I need to survive in a human society, and the society in which I live says I need money to survive. So thus I need to build my relationship with money in a healthy way. That is probably very different from the way that I've been taught to deal with money.

Speaker 2: 47:28

So a lot of the. Because money is just a physical good and everything is energetic, so money will take on whatever energy you're attaching to it. For most of us, the energies that we've been taught unconsciously to attach to money are much more along the lines of scarcity, control, fear, manipulation, anger, resentment. Right, we've got a lot of this like how dare money tell me that I can't have it? Right, you can. There's so much wealth, there is so much wealth in the world. But if you're not willing to address not only your money story but address the frequencies, those energies that you sit in around money, it doesn't matter how spiritual you are. You're not going to receive money we're playing an energetic game.

Speaker 2: 48:23

I mean, this is einstein's work, right? This is like a theory of relativity, quantum mechanics, everything is energy and and energetic ions attract same energetic ions. It's a game. So if the energy that you're sitting in is scarcity around your money, I never have enough, I never have enough, I never have enough. That's what you're going in. Is scarcity around your money, I never have enough, I never have enough, I never have enough. That's what you're going to experience. You never have enough money. I think the trick is that we've, in spiritual spaces, we've oversimplified that process, though we say well, just step into abundance.

Speaker 1: 48:57

Right.

Speaker 2: 48:57

That's all you need to do Just believe that you have more than enough, and then you'll have more than enough. Then you'll you'll have more than it does. It's quite work that way. It might work. Some people? Um, I think that we have a lot of trauma associated with money that we need to move through. We need to work on regulating our nervous systems, because your nervous system is the control center of your body and it will. It will determine your capacity to receive things time and time again. It will determine your capacity to receive things time and time again.

Speaker 2: 49:23

It will determine your capacity to receive things. So if you haven't worked on that around your money story, you absolutely have to Looking at those energetic frequencies that you're in the stories that they're connected to. Why do I have this belief? Why do I have this story? Where is this from? Instead of I'm so stupid that I look at money with this really fearful way. No, there's a reason that you look at money with that fearful way. Where did it come from? And I have found it in doing all of that in combination with. I just follow what is energetically correct for me.

Speaker 2: 49:58

The more I am in alignment, the bigger capacity I have. So the more I'm in alignment, the more I'm going to be attracting the things that are in alignment for me, and money is one of them. I need money as a vehicle to do the work that I do. I can't do this for free. I can't invest back in the community that I facilitate if I don't have money to be able to do that. So I found that human design and knowing my blueprint in human design has been a really cool shortcut to money, because if all I'm playing with here is I just need to be the most in alignment that I can be, knowing that I'm human and there are going to be times that I'm out of alignment, and that's a necessary part of the process and it's a good part of the process. But the more I'm in alignment, the more I'm attracting financial wealth in a way that is also in alignment. But the way that I do that as Holly is different, the way that you're going to do that as Renee. So I can also put aside all of these kind of money-making strategies and all of these. Here's the one, two, three-step system, whether it's, you know, traditional or whether it's spiritual, it doesn't matter. Putting those things aside. If that actually doesn't match my blueprint, then it's not going to work for me.

Speaker 2: 51:18

So there are so many places on your human design chart that you can look, but my favourite place to look at is what we call your Jupiter gates. So gates are these little numbers all over your human design chart that you can look. But my favorite place to look at is what we call your jupiter gates. So gates are these little numbers all over your human design chart. You'll see these two bars down the side of your human design chart that have planet symbols and on each side you'll see the jupiter symbol, which is like a little four looking number. There'll be two gates that sit underneath your jupiter energy.

Speaker 2: 51:42

That is how you are designed to connect with money and connect with wealth, connect with prosperity, connect with abundance. It's a shortcut. It's like okay, for me, my Jupiter, my main Jupiter, is gate 58, which is the joy of life. I actually just need to enjoy being alive. Often for me, a way to experience more wealth is to go out in nature and just look at the beautiful things for a day and say I'm not doing anything, I'm not producing anything, I'm hardly ever even working on my money story or any of those things. I'm just connecting with the energy that is in alignment for me. That then magnetically draws in that same energetic frequency. So this is where we get even more individualized and even more exciting, because the way that you're going to do that, based on your chart, is super different to how I'm going to do that.

Speaker 1: 52:40

Okay, Now I've like, literally I'm like already pulled up my chart.

Speaker 2: 52:43

Okay, yeah, where is it?

Speaker 1: 52:45

where is it? Because I was like I didn't even know about that and I'm trying to figure it out. I'm gonna have to. I'm gonna have to figure it out.

Speaker 2: 52:52

Okay, so you want to look at those planetary symbols down the right hand side? Oh, yes, yes, beautiful, beautiful, okay. So your Jupiter over here is in 28,. So gate 28, which is a splenic gate, you can see it over here in the splenic centre. Yeah, it's on the channel, that's the 28 to 38 channel. So on the 38, which you don't have, that's the gate of the fighter. It's this like I'm going to fight to find meaning. But the 28, which you do have, it's the most horrible name, don't get put off. It's, it's the gate of struggle.

Speaker 2: 53:30

Okay, I have heard this so 20, 28 is all about um like, there's virtue in the struggle, there's virtue in in like almost doing it the hard way. You learn so much more when you struggle to learn it, when you go through the debt. But it's because it's splenic, it's very intuitive, it's very like I've I've got to swim in this. I've just got to.

Speaker 2: 53:58

I can't bypass it and intellectualize what I'm feeling and try to look for the solution straight away. I've got to sit in the struggle and just let it be a struggle, because the struggle has meaning. That's where meaning exists for me. That's what is valuable. So the fear that is associated with gate we call it the shadow is that everything is meaningless, right, right. So when you get into that state of, oh my gosh, I'm doing all of this work and it's just, it's meaningless, it's not landing, it's not getting anywhere, it's not, I mean, maybe this relationship that I'm in is actually meaningless, there's no value here. That's when you know you're in the shadow frequency of that energy.

Speaker 2: 54:40

And what you need to step further into in is where's the struggle that I'm experiencing here? Like, what can I dig my teeth into around this? And like grip and start to pull that apart. Like where are my shadows and where are my wounds and where are my traumas and what the heck is going on? And why is this a struggle for me? Because that's going to create meaning, and every single time you go through that process, the more you allow yourself to lean into.

Speaker 2: 55:06

Yeah, this is a struggle, great, bring it on Like, bring it into my field, the more you're going to be attracting that abundance, the more you are going to be closely connecting yourself with that frequency of prosperity and wealth and expansion and money. So it's always this kind of unorthodox way. This is the really cool way of looking at these deeper details of human design. Is that? Nowhere in the world are you going to have a money mindset coach say to you what you need to do is just lean more into your struggle and that's going to attract money for you. Yeah, exactly, but actually actually for you. That is correct. That is how you do it.

Speaker 1: 55:46

That is so interesting. I have heard a little bit about it, but I never heard it framed that way. I'm going to, I'm going to dig deeper into that, because that is fascinating to me. Wow, that's so cool. Ah, so so good.

Speaker 2: 55:59

Yeah, thanks for that. Everyone's going to be looking up their jupiter on their shots. Yes, because as soon as we talk about money, people are like what?

Speaker 1: 56:08

yeah, play into that no, I totally get that. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, we have to wrap up. I could keep you here all day, but I can't, so, uh, let's go ahead and finish up real quick. Um, before I, um sort of like ask you where people can find you, I want to know your big three. You mentioned astrology a little bit, so, yeah, what's your big three?

Speaker 2: 56:31

I am very very Pisces based.

Speaker 1: 56:32

I was about to ask you.

Speaker 2: 56:34

Yeah, I'm a Pisces sun, a Pisces rising with an Aries moon, so a whole lot of water surrounding fire.

Speaker 1: 56:41

I got an Aries moon. I like to call it big dick energy.

Speaker 2: 56:44

It's so big dick energy. But then the feminist in me is like why are we giving men I know, I know, I know it's just bad energy? This is like I am strong, I love, I love Aries women. I think it's such a cool frequency.

Speaker 1: 57:00

Yes, Agreed. Um, yeah, I'm a Virgo with a Libra rising um and an Aries moon, and my twins have Aries moon and I'm married to an Aries sun, so there's a lot of fire a lot of fire, a lot of boldness in that house everybody.

Speaker 1: 57:15

Oh yeah, nobody, nobody is not going to say what they want to say in my house. Um, no, we're just like embracing it all. Yeah, I just, I always love to find out. But yeah, I was going to ask you about the Pisces thing, cause you do seem a little Piscean to me, a very Piscean, and um a lot of my really good friends are Pisces women, so yeah, we're Pisces season, right now.

Speaker 2: 57:39

Yeah, right, like I think that being in Pisces season my sister's sign juicy. Yeah, so like look at the Pisces around you during a Pisces season because, while everybody else is losing their mind in the emotional void, if Pisces are like, welcome to my world.

Speaker 1: 57:56

People, I've been swimming in this for a while this is great.

Speaker 2: 58:01

Lean into the. It's great. You'll get really creative.

Speaker 1: 58:04

Yes, yes, and as a Virgo, because it's my North node. So Pisces is my North node. It is what I'm working toward right in this life too it's like to become more Piscean, to become more in flow, to become more, you know, divine, feminine and all of that I love, love, love. So, yay, okay. So tell people where they can find you and learn more from you.

Speaker 2: 58:26

Yeah, so I run a community called the Manifestor Community. Pretty straightforward, it's for and about manifestors. So we have a lot of people who are manifestors, of course, but we also have a lot of people who know manifestors, love manifestors, raise manifestors, coach manifestors. They come to really respectfully observe, which we love. We love that.

Speaker 2: 58:48

We love having this space where we're able to inform people of who we are and our mission is very it's very Piscean, of course. It's very altruistic. Right Like I want to be able to create a space where manifestors are actually understood. So don't feel like you can't come to the manifestor community because you're not a manifestor. If you have a manifestor in your life in any way, we're going to be able to give you some language that helps you love them better, and that's only ever going to create good things in your world. We need more aligned manifestors. We just do. Manifestors are the initiators of the collective and we need to be healed and be in alignment.

Speaker 2: 59:29

For those people who are just dabbling in human design and like freaked out by the whole concept of a manifestor or don't really have anything to do with them, I think there are so many beautiful accounts that teach those amazing kind of fundamental basics of the human design system. My favorites are Day Luna, Erin, Claire Jones. There's phenomenal people out there. So Google human design or go onto Instagram and just type in human design and I promise that you will find a voice that resonates with you. There are so many supportive people speaking and teaching about it in different ways. So find your lane and start absorbing.

Speaker 1: 1:00:10

Love, yes, awesome. Thank you so much for being here. This was so fun, so insightful, really awesome meeting you.

Speaker 2: 1:00:18

Thank you so much. This was really fun. I'm going to keep you lodged in my mind as the gate 28 into Jupiter. Start observing how you're using struggle to experience wealth. It's going to be great.

Speaker 1: 1:00:30

So fun, okay, awesome, excited about that and I'm just kidding, thank you, thank you. Thank you. Lots of good takeaways from this episode. It was so awesome chatting with Holly, so I really hope that you kind of take what she said specifically about really tuning in and listening. You know, human design is such a phenomenal tool to that and I've had other human design experts on. I will put some in the show notes as well. I know she mentioned a couple that I also follow. They have podcasts as well and Tangie has also been on the show and I've had sessions with Tangie. So I will definitely link some other human design resources for you guys down below so that if you wanna dive deeper and you're sort of like just learning about it, those are really great places to start.

Speaker 1: 1:01:19

But yeah, if you're a manifestor, like she said, or you love a manifestor or you want to learn more about manifestors, you might want to check out her community as well, because I, like I said, I only know a couple and, yeah, they're very different. Than you know, I tend to attract a lot of Manny Gens. I'm a generator and even with projectors I find you know a little bit easier. Reflector is super rare. I've never even coached a reflector, so I have yet to have a reflector come into my world, but I would love that. That would be super fun and, who knows, maybe that'll happen. But yeah, manifestors, you guys are pretty awesome and I have a lot of, I would say, similarities, lot of, I would say similarities, like some of the things that she was talking about, about how you know, um, the just just all of the hallmarks of being a manifester. A lot of that really resonates with me, even though I'm a generator. So I wonder, I wonder what what that's sort of about again could be, like some gates and channels and things like that with human design. I also I know that, um, astrology has a lot to do with that as well and, as you guys know, I'm really big into all of that.

Speaker 1: 1:02:27

So hopefully this really had some really fun, amazing, insightful takeaways for you, as always, I would love to hear about that. So please hit me up over on Instagram, shoot me a DM. I'm at Renee Bowen and you can join my little channel there as well. It's not specifically for the podcast, but it's called Tried and True, tried, true and Woo Creatives and you know we continue kind of that conversation there and you can also join the Facebook group as well. All of that's linked for you below. All the links are below to find whatever you might need, so please reach out, let me know what you think and, and of course, rate and review for us so that we can keep this journey going on. Thank you guys, so much for being a part of my little community here, and have an awesome rest of your week. Love you guys. Bye.