Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Tried and True with a Dash of Woo, where we blend rock-solid tips with a little bit of magic. I'm Renee Bowen, your host, life and business coach and professional photographer at your service. We are all about getting creative, diving into your business and playing with manifestation over here. So are you ready to get inspired and have some fun? Let's dive in. Hey, happy Wednesday and welcome back to Tried and True with a dash of woo. I'm your host, renee bowen.

Speaker 1: 0:30

My guest today is lauren axelrod, and we have a really amazing conversation all about radical spirituality.

Speaker 1: 0:38

She is an ordained interfaith interspiritual minister, a chaplain, a spiritual director and a teacher, and she's also a graduate of One Spirit Interfaith Interspiritual Seminary. So she and I have this really deep conversation about all things radical spirituality and also her new book called 10 Words An Interspiritual Guide to Becoming Better People in a Better World. So what we talk about today is all about how you being the best version of yourself, actually does make a huge difference to the world and, considering where we are right now in the world, this is a very timely and important topic. We have a really beautiful conversation that I know you are going to really love, so we're just going to dive right in. Hey Lauren, thanks so much for joining us here. I am really excited about this topic, this idea of radical spirituality and sort of pick your brain on all things spirituality. But in your experience, how does that journey to inner peace contribute to creating a more compassionate society, so bettering our world, especially in today's world?

Speaker 2: 1:54

Yeah, it's such a good question and an important one. We like to say that we have to be the change we want to see in the world. Right, so it has to start with us. We can't complain that we live in an unjust, unfair world if we're not willing to be more just and more fair and kinder ourselves. So the journey is both an inner journey and an outer journey. It's who we can become and who we can be in relationship with others in the world around us. You know it has to begin with us. It has to begin with our own internal work.

Speaker 1: 2:32

Absolutely. I always say you know, a lot of people come to me and they want more abundance, more love, more peace, whatever. And my first question is usually well, how are you living that, you know? Are you you living that? Are you feeling more loving, are you feeling more abundant? So I love that idea, right, because it's a great reminder. You've dedicated your life to this entire ministry, really, so what inspired you to really dedicate your life to this interfaith, interspiritual ministry? How does that connect to this fostering of peace in the world?

Speaker 2: 3:09

Well, it's kind of a long journey in the sense that you know it's not a quick, easy story. But you know, my mother would say I came out of the womb this way, like I just have always had a propensity and a curiosity about what we would call spirituality, just had a sense that this isn't it, like this is not just it, there's more to it and it's a great mystery. And I just look at it that way. It's just a mystery. But for me, you know my own religious journey. I was raised Jewish but I went to Episcopal school so I was in chapel every single day. And then I also had the great benefit of really being nurtured by an African American woman who was also a pastor of a small church. So on Sundays I was there doing the hallelujah, praise the Lord. Can I hear you testify in bit? So I was surrounded by religion, if you will. And then, once I grew into my adulthood, it was more of a curiosity journey.

Speaker 2: 4:16

I studied all different paths and deeply immersed in Zen for 15 years and Advaita Vedanta, more and more and more. You know, studied with the Sufis, have studied with shamans down in the Ecuadorian Amazon, you know, all over the place really looking for? What is it that is true, right, what is true across the board? Because the problem that we have with religion is it's dividing us, it's us and them right. But if you start to look at all of the religions and you go to the mystical root, right and radical means root, so that's why I talk about radical spirituality. What's at the root and at the root are some really common principles and aspirations. They're saying the same things. We call it different stuff and we've got you know some doctrine and some stuff around it, but but at its core, root we're saying exactly the same thing is that there's some fundamental principles and laws, if you will, natural laws that if we do these things, then we will become better people in a better world. We will have peace, not just inner peace, but outer peace.

Speaker 1: 5:26

Absolutely. I love that reminder of at the root of everything. It is very, very similar and you know, I was brought up very, very Catholic, very. You know, I went to Catholic school for 13 years. I didn't even know that there, I mean like, even though we studied the Bible like I remember specifically being I think it was like second grade, it must've been right after our first communion. So you know, we were all kind of getting up to go to take communion and a girl in my class wasn't going, and so I asked one of the nuns who was my teacher, why isn't Stacey getting up to take communion? And she was like oh, she's Baptist. And so I asked one of the nuns who was my teacher, why isn't Stacy getting up to take communion? And she was like oh, she's Baptist. And I was like what is that? Like, that was just so shocking to me.

Speaker 1: 6:12

I hadn't even heard of different religions, and that, I think, is where my curiosity began, because that just opened up an entirely different world to me. Like, what do you mean? And so I feel like I've also been seeking and searching and questioning, and you know all of these things all my life. It was very, very intense in high school, especially because I was taught by a very strict old school Irish priest, who was not super cool, let's just put that out there and he was so stringent and strict in his beliefs it made me question even more. You know, like we get what we need Right, so it was definitely a catalyst and a trigger for me to sort of, you know, ask more questions.

Speaker 1: 7:02

But I really love you know, when you get to the heart of it, it's all about love, right, Like everything is is about this love and compassion. So in your journey and in the work that you do because I know that you lead retreats and workshops and things like that what are some of the things that you like to focus on when people come to you looking to get more in touch with this part of themselves?

Speaker 2: 7:27

Well, I believe everybody is on their own spiritual journey, right, and there's no one right path for anyone. So really, what I'm trying to foster is helping people find their own authentic spirituality. And we really live in that time now where people, you know the institutional religions we're all like I mean not all of us, but certainly within this generation, right we're like, you know that's not working so well and we also have so much information at our fingertips.

Speaker 2: 7:58

Now we can, we can pick and choose and we can kind of create what I call the spiritual smoothie right we just throw a bunch of stuff in there and I can do my yoga and I can do my Tai Chi and I'm doing my chanting, and is it really? Is that surface stuff, is that performative, or are we really finding what it means for us and what our path?

Speaker 1: 8:20

is.

Speaker 2: 8:22

So you know, I work in trying to just basically, I ask questions what does it mean for you? Where do you you know what's what's alive for you in your spirituality? And we talk about there being these common principles, and so I've kind of narrowed them down to 10, right, there are 10 common principles, I call them the 10 words, and they all begin with A, B and C, so they're super like basic. That's how basic they are. And if we start, if we really explore these 10 words, then we start to find what is true for us and what is meaningful and how we can become better people, more peaceful, more joyful, more purposeful, in a world that reflects that.

Speaker 1: 9:09

Let's dive into what those 10 words are, do you mind?

Speaker 2: 9:12

Yeah, I don't mind at all. So the first one is attention. You're not going anywhere if you're not paying attention, right? And that's where a lot of modern spirituality stops Mindfulness. And that's where a lot of modern spirituality stops Mindfulness, right, it's just the first step, it's just the first word, right? There's nine more after that. So attention, acceptance, authenticity, benevolence, balance, contemplation, creativity, collaboration, celebration and care.

Speaker 1: 9:47

And so how do you see, how do you integrate those 10 words in what you do? You're a creative as well you know as you are you are a spiritual teacher and so many, like so many of us wear so many hats. You're also a creative. So how do you integrate those 10 words into your life, your business and what you do?

Speaker 2: 10:10

Well, that's the beautiful thing about these 10 words is that they're derived from sort of sacred teachings across the board. They're what's true. It doesn't matter. You could look at them through the lens of Christianity or the lens of Hinduism, or the lens of Buddhism or Taoism, it's all the same, right, they're all saying the same things. But they also apply, whether you know, they can apply to everything. My brother's a musician, he's an orchestra conductor and he's like these apply to music, like, yeah, they apply to everything, they apply to your life.

Speaker 2: 10:42

And so, as a creative, I mean, obviously creativity is one of the words, but if I'm also not working in my business collaboratively, if I'm not paying attention, if I'm not kind to the people that I'm working with you know my clients or the, or you know the other creative people that I'm working with if I'm not caring, it's not going to work. You know, it's just not. You could be the most creative artist on the planet, but if you're not doing these other things, you know you're only kind of half there. It's not just about you know. Our creativity is part of all of this, and the thing about these words is they show up every day. I guarantee you these words are going to show up for you once you start paying attention.

Speaker 1: 11:29

Yeah, absolutely. I love that because, yes, most of us I feel like, especially nowadays, with the onslaught of information we have thrown at us, there's no lack of it, especially online have thrown at us there's no lack of it. You know, especially online, that it can feel like a lot, so a lot of us will live sort of hypnotically and just kind of go through the motions. But when you start looking for these words, when you start being intentional with where your focus is, you will start to notice how that's showing up, which is a really big factor of it. Like you said, that's that first one is attention.

Speaker 2: 12:06

Yeah, if you're not paying attention, then you're really not going to get very far up the path. And you know, going back to that idea of you, know how did I get to this particular place it? You know, I was that person with the spiritual smoothie. I had 40 years of intense spiritual study and practice and I didn't have a container for it. And the traditional paths give us that container, whether we agree or not. They give you the path. Here's the path, here's what you do.

Speaker 2: 12:41

And I realized it wasn't holistic. It was piecemeal, A little bit of this, a little bit of that, throw it all in a blender, but it really wasn't a holistic thing. And that's really what I was looking for, you know, and it's what led me to Interfaith, interspiritual Seminary, because I was looking for a container that wasn't a box but, you know, had flexible, transparent walls. You know where I could find what was authentic and real for me. And I also discovered that really, it's all about questions. It's not about the answers, it's how is this, is this principle showing up today for me? What can I do to cultivate this practice a little bit more? Yeah, it's always questions.

Speaker 1: 13:28

And I think a lot of people at least from what I can tell and my own experiences too, are not really, and maybe it's just the way also that we're programmed in our society. But many of us don't want to sit in the discomfort, don't want to sit in the question. It's uncomfortable. I think we've been sold also this toxic positivity, the performance like you were mentioning before, of like just just think positive, just do this and everything's fine, and that spiritual bypass sort of thing, and I think a lot of people who aren't really truly questioning and sitting in their discomfort doing that shadow work or whatever you want to call it, they're really not getting into the deeper root of all of that. So I see that a lot, I definitely understand it, but there's so much gold, as you know, when you were willing to sit with it and allow yourself to be uncomfortable inside of it, what is your? What is some good advice for anyone who is listening, who is having a hard time looking at the uncomfortableness or sitting?

Speaker 2: 14:48

in that space. Well, about ourselves. You know, and for me I always come back to this sense of mystery, and you know it can be uncomfortable not to know until you get to a place where the not knowing part is the fun, right? It's like I don't know, and I may never know.

Speaker 2: 15:14

I like to say that we're on a need to know basis, human beings, right, we only get only so much information and we get it exactly when we need it. And I think being able to rest in that place of I don't know and I may never know, but isn't this mystery?

Speaker 1: 15:34

cool. Yes, that is such a freeing, I think, space to be in, and when you're able to access that often the more you do it, obviously, just like anything else, the easier it gets to access. But it can be scary at first, like you said. You know, because we do, we do, we crave, we crave certainty. But it's sitting in the unknowing, sitting in that space of what if? That's something I ask myself pretty much every morning. One of the one of the questions I'll ask myself is I wonder, I wonder what's going to show up for me today, like what if today is like exactly what I need.

Speaker 2: 16:11

It always is Right it always is, and that's you know. I share the same practice where it's like I wake up every morning and go wow, bonus day, awesome, what's going to happen today, I don't know. Like that's the fun of it is, I don't know. And more often than not, I am thoroughly surprised. You know it's. The wow factor is where I go. You know is I have a practice of going outside every morning, doesn't matter what the weather is, you know, and going outside and looking around and remembering wow, the sheer impossibility of existence of everything that I'm looking at and myself the fact that I can look at it and be present to it is mind blowing. And I have to keep coming back to the wow.

Speaker 1: 17:00

That is so true. Yeah, I don't have any answers?

Speaker 2: 17:04

I don't have the answers and you know I'm also a hospice chaplain, so I get asked a lot of why questions and a lot of you know what's going to happen and what's. You know what's death, what's? What's life, you know after death, all of these questions and I just have to be in this place of I don't know, but hopefully you'll find out, send a postcard.

Speaker 2: 17:30

Let me know, because I don't know and I think it takes. You know, we live in a culture where it's the you know appearing to be the expert. Yeah, that you know, I know, I know I'm the person, I'm the expert, and it's really toxic for us. It's really because it takes us out of that mystery. That's such a great point. You know, it takes us out of our own willingness to keep learning, to keep exploring, to keep seeking, to keep wondering, and it's okay.

Speaker 1: 17:59

It's okay to not know, it's okay to sit in that space of wonder and possibility, because that's really where that can drop in as well.

Speaker 2: 18:10

Absolutely when you know there are no possibilities anymore, but when you don't know, everything is possible.

Speaker 1: 18:17

Literally everything is possible and you know getting to that space. What I find is a little hard for some people is the practice of allowing themselves to be open enough to receive, be open enough to be in the seat of possibility daily. I know we talked briefly just a second ago about some of the morning practices that we do, but what are some of the ways that people can access that that you've seen work for? Again, it's not one size fits all. We kind of have to try on a lot of different things. But I always like to ask this to people like you, because we see a lot of different practices and rituals and you know things that keep us on track and I feel like it's just a great. It's a great dialogue to have in general.

Speaker 2: 19:11

Absolutely, and you know there are lots of different ways out there. Every spiritual practice is fundamentally about paying attention, about turning your attention to that wow, to that being present, to possibility, to being open and receptive, to knowing something that you know, you may not even know, you don't know and you know. One of the words that I work with is contemplation, and contemplation is attention on a higher level, right, and a higher octave, because you're turning that attention from sort of you know yourself or something right in front of you to a much to the bit, that broader picture. And there are lots of practices for contemplation. I mean going for a walk in nature and you know, my thing is it's like you just have to let go of what you think you know all the time.

Speaker 2: 20:11

You know one of the great practices is is I like to pretend it's. It's some? Do you know who Rip Van Winkle is Was right. So Rip Van Winkle, who was this? You know it's a story. It's an old New England story about this guy who falls into an amnesiac sleep and wakes up after a hundred years, right, and the world has changed. So I like to pretend and it's kind of a fun practice of pretending that I'm Rip Van Winkle and I have just awakened from an amnesiac sleep of an indefinite period of time and it's all gone All my stories, all my sense of who I am, my identities, my isms, my beliefs, even my knowledge of what I'm looking at is gone, and you can only hold it for a few seconds. Sometimes you know just this, like whoa, it's complete freedom. Yeah, it's complete freedom, but there are lots of practices. There's, you know, meditation, but remembering that our meditation is not about. Oh, I had a cool experience, you know, I saw all kinds of sparkly things. That's not what it's about, right?

Speaker 1: 21:25

the meditation is letting every, letting all that stuff drop so that you can be open, yeah, and raise that frequency to become, you know, to attract and become magnetic to what you are hoping for or thinking of. Right, because we attract what we put out, our little radio beacon right, like I always say.

Speaker 1: 21:48

But I want to touch base really quickly on what you were just speaking about.

Speaker 1: 21:55

The Van Winkle analogy is really awesome, because a friend of mine who is also a spiritual teacher, something that she does every day, and when she first this was a few years ago, when she first started talking to me about what this was, it was like whoa, but now I really get it and it's really amazing.

Speaker 1: 22:11

It kind of is the same sort of vibe. She always talks about how every morning, she destroys her life and her relationships, like she'll literally sort of put herself in that place of you know, not destroy in a negative way, but letting it go, so to speak, so that she can recreate it every single day. And I love that thought process, like even just with her relationship with her partner, her children. You know, letting go of all of the things that you've done that you probably regret, or even the things that you did quote unquote right, but letting all of that fall away so that you probably regret, or even the things that you did quote unquote right, but letting all of that fall away so that you can just recreate today, right, you want it to be.

Speaker 2: 22:59

Absolutely. I love that practice. It's, you know, every spiritual tradition, at its mystical root, talks about the idea that you have to die before you die. And for a lot of people, that's like what before you die? And for a lot of people, that's like what I have to do. What, and it's what you have to do, is die to all these, these things that you're holding on, to, all these isms, all these stories. You have to let them go, you have to destroy them, you have to let them go so that the world becomes new. Yeah, every day, you know, and and again this goes back to you know, like I said, I pull these out of spiritual traditions, spiritual teachings, because that is my background, that is my training, but the idea that the world is created anew every single moment, it's mind blowing right.

Speaker 2: 23:47

Every single moment. The world is in this constant process of becoming so. It's always new.

Speaker 1: 23:56

I love that, like as someone who has just lived with anxiety. You know, even as a child I didn't really know that was what it was called when I was a kid, but I definitely have. You know this, this level of anxiety which leads most of us with anxiety to want to control. You know this, this level of anxiety which leads most of us with anxiety to want to control. You know, we need that certainty, and so I know that there's a lot of people in my audience, a lot of women in my audience especially, who kind of fall into that. You know the, the need to control, the need to make sure everything is okay, so that blah, blah, blah, sure everything is okay, so that blah, blah, blah, blah, right, and that leads to so, so much, so much unnecessary suffering, because worrying about something is like praying for it to happen.

Speaker 1: 24:52

I find that this practice of letting go like that is one of the things that is at the forefront of my practice is that idea of just letting it go. Letting it go, like you said, dying before you can die, you know, letting all of that fall away so that you can experience that, that peace, and I think that that's, you know more and more and as I get older and from what I see and people around my age as well, that is really at the top of my list. Is just the peace, peaceful.

Speaker 2: 25:19

The peace and especially in the world that we live in right now. Right it's, we're in high anxiety. We're in super high anxiety right now because the future is really uncertain and there are a lot of things going on in the world that are really scary and that desire to want to control is really strong. So you know the way that I, you know one of the words go back to my 10 words because they really are my structure right.

Speaker 2: 25:49

And they really work, not just for me, but they work for a lot of people. It's what I, you know, it's really what I teach. The second word is acceptance right, right, and that's instead of. You know, we hear a lot about let go, let go, let go, let go. It's not so much about letting go, it's about accepting what is yeah and accepting sometimes that we can't change it, we can't control it.

Speaker 2: 26:17

I mean, talk to people at the end of life, which I do, that's part of you, right, and the big thing that they have to work through is that loss of control, because you don't have it At the end, you don't. The truth is, we never really have it. It's an illusion, right, it's an illusion, but we keep going like I can control this, I can control this, I can, and we can't Right. So the sooner we learn to just accept we don't have to like it, we don't have to condone it, we don't have to, you know, do anything with it, we don't even have to change it, but we just have to accept it first, yeah, that's a really, really great point, especially thinking about the world.

Speaker 1: 27:07

Great point, especially thinking about the world and the amount of negativity. Obviously, yes, we can do things like control what we're consuming, you know, as far as media, not just, not just food. Everything is frequency, but, you know, and controlling the things that we allow in our field is definitely something that I try and keep at the forefront, which is hard. I'm going to be really honest, right? Because especially those of us who are running online businesses there's a lot of us who do sort of you know, quote unquote need to be in this space in order to do what we do and to be able to reach and help as many people as we'd like to. And it can also feel extremely overwhelming to be online all the time and to be at the whim of whatever news cycle is currently running, and so I think that's why it is so currently running, and so I think that's why it is so, so important. And you're right, words matter. Letting go versus acceptance, you know, those are two different energies.

Speaker 2: 28:13

They're two different energies, you know, and and another one of the words is balance, right. So it's really easy again, if you're working online or you're, you've got, you know, a lot of of input information to balance that. So so that you're not being overwhelmed. You know, taking taking a media Sabbath Right, bone off day, like no, and it's hard, it's hard for us to do. We've become so accustomed to this constant um stimulus right, this constant information coming and coming and coming, so we can stay on top of it. We can stay on top of it. We can stay on top of it, and taking a break can be really it's like symptoms of withdrawal for people.

Speaker 2: 28:59

oh, yeah but we have to do it to kind of be a little bit more in balance. What we're taking in is important, especially if it's throwing us out of balance. You know, and again you know, going back to the way words matter. I mean, I'm a word person, that's why there's 10 words, right, it's just they matter. But another way of thinking about it going back to the let go, letting go, letting go way of thinking about it going back to the let go, letting go, letting go is instead of thinking about what we have to get rid of, which is a kind of beat yourself up action. And we do it a lot. We're not perfect yet. We have to let go of this. We have to let go of that.

Speaker 2: 29:36

I like to think more of what do I need to bring in Because there's only so much space? So if I'm going to bring in because there's only so much space, so if I'm going to bring in balance, what's going to get let go of it just will, it'll naturally happen. We don't have to make it happen, and I think this is, you know, in contemporary spirituality. We have this thing about like I have to do my yoga, I have to sit on my cushion, I have to go meditate. You know, we about like I have to do my yoga, I have to sit on my cushion, I have to go meditate. You know, we just make it far more of a chore than it really needs to be and we beat ourselves up because we're not. We haven't achieved enlightenment yet, you know we haven't. We just beat ourselves up way too much.

Speaker 2: 30:19

And instead of being so hard on ourselves, what, if we thought about it is, what can I bring in to nourish spiritually? What can I spiritually bring in to nourish myself? Not in a superficial self-care way, right, but in true, deep soul nourishment. And if I bring these things in, what will naturally fall away? Fall away, like you know, it's fall here in Vermont. The leaves are falling. Nobody's making them fall, nobody's saying you have to fall off now.

Speaker 1: 30:53

They fall because it's just that time and it is such a natural process and I think that one of the things that I like to sort of use as a metaphor with my clients and for myself because it's actually a very real thing for me too is you know, I have a a lot of weight and I held on to all of those pieces of clothing for a really long time and I just I didn't beat myself up about it. I just would kind of like every time I walked in there and saw how packed my closet was, because I had to buy new things, right, but nothing was fitting and I was like you know all of the things the shelves are taking, like I'm a Virgo, I'm very organized, right, but things were starting to like sort of pile up in different areas and I would just kind of walk in and for a long time I would just say that's interesting, like I wonder why I'm keeping this right. Like I wonder why, because I like to ask myself questions and I think that if, when we do that sort of thing, it things will drop in and I just sort of like sat with it for a little bit and didn't force myself to get rid of it. But then this, this realization hit me one day when I walked in there and it was okay.

Speaker 1: 32:17

Well, what if every time I bring in a new piece, something new, an addition that I love, because I'm not one to buy a whole lot of things, but I buy pieces that I actually really love and I know I can wear for a long time?

Speaker 1: 32:31

And I feel like clothes are a part of the outward expression of how you know my personality. So every time I bring in something new, I'm going to take a piece out at the same time, and that practice has been very metaphorical for me. You know, not just it's yes, for me it's about letting go of something I physically no longer can actually wear because it doesn't fit, but it can be very true about how we create and destroy ourselves every day, because I'm not the same person that I was two years ago four years, not even close and when I think about who I was as a young mother in my thirties, who is that? And I can give her a lot of love and compassion and forgiveness and all of that, because I made a lot of mistakes, just like everybody. But at the same time it feels so like she feels so foreign to me and I kind of struggled with that for a little while, but at the end of the day it's okay.

Speaker 2: 33:40

You know, like we are, who we are evolving to be right, like we're always in a process of becoming right, and I love that closet metaphor because it's true, you know, it's like I've only got so much space, so if I'm going to bring something else in, that I really love that, nourishes me, that makes me feel deeply good, deeply, not superficially deeply good, and something's got to go. You know, it's just something's got to go and I love that. That.

Speaker 2: 34:07

You know that recognition that that you are not the same person today as you were yesterday, five years ago, two years ago, 20 years ago. I mean, I was talking to my college roommate the other day and she said you know, if you had told me in 1982, that this is who you would become, I'd be like what I don't think. So you know and it's true, and also as a young mother and you know I taught high school for 15 years Like who is that person? And the recognition that our self is not fixed, it's not a fixed thing. And again, then, possibilities are open. If I am not limited by my stories about myself or my identities, then who can I be?

Speaker 1: 34:56

Yeah, I love all of these topics in this whole conversation. A really good friend of mine topics in this whole conversation a really good friend of mine. We were just having a very deep discussion about that as well. And you know this concept of identity. I feel like, especially as women, we get really wrapped up into who we think we should be or who other people told us we should be, the programming, all of those things. It's really easy to sort of just like I said before hypnotically fall into what we feel like is expected of us. But when we start paying attention and focusing on the inner part, of us.

Speaker 2: 35:37

That's the third word. Authenticity, right, and how we get to our authenticity is number one we start paying attention. Number two we begin to accept. Right, we really have to accept ourselves. This is a radical self-compassion practice, right, Like we really have to accept ourselves completely, the good, the bad, the ugly, the oh, my God, my hair the whole thing. Right, we have to accept all of it and it's only then that we can begin to be truly our authentic selves and find our authentic voices, as creative, you know, as creative people, find our authentic spiritual path, find our authentic way of contributing to the world.

Speaker 2: 36:17

Right, Making the world a better place. Because if we're doing it from a thou shalt and that was the other thing about, you know, my finding these 10 words is I didn't want thou shalts or thou shalt nots, I wanted things that were more open ended and were more, you know, let themselves to inquiry, not to rote practice. And as women, you know, we get into. Well, as a woman, as a mother, as a working you know, working woman, I need to be this Especially, I have to be all things to all people, and that really does a number on us, you know. I mean, and I have to say I'm 60, right, so I have this beauty. You know, it's like being 60 is really awesome.

Speaker 2: 37:10

It's awesome because it's like you know what I don't even have the energy to try to be the person that you want me to be anymore. You know, there's a beautiful thing about becoming an older woman and it is and embracing that, you know, and being like I don't need permission to be myself anymore.

Speaker 1: 37:18

I'm in my 50s, I'm 54 and it is one like I talk about that all the time to my friends and just journal about it. There's a freedom with it that I didn't really expect. You know, I kind of heard that, but it's hard to conceptualize that until you actually experience it. It's just like you know, becoming a parent like everyone tells you, oh my gosh your life is going to change.

Speaker 1: 37:42

You have no idea it's similar. You have to walk that path and I'm like, oh, oh, this is, this is what they mean, you know, like there is, there's this ability to give a crap about what people think, I don't care, like I really don't care, and there's so much freedom in that and it doesn't mean I'm living my life just like you know. Like you know, intentionally trying to be, you know, a surface level authentic. No, it's the opposite. It's like, no, I'm going to just kind of be who I am and you really don't know, really irreverent.

Speaker 2: 38:14

And he wasn't. He wasn't everybody's cup of tea and he was absolutely straight up about it. Like I'm not, I'm not for everyone, you know, and that recognition is like I don't have to be for everyone, I have to be for myself first of all, and because if I'm not, then there's, you know, anything I do out in the world is not authentic and it's not really contributing. You know, we have, we are given gifts, we're given our own gifts in the world, and if we don't touch to those gifts, if we don't touch those gifts, then we can't give them back. And that's what we're here for.

Speaker 2: 39:04

Right, I really do believe that, and I think the same is true for our own spiritual path, finding our own spirituality, not what somebody else says, just because some you know Tibetan or Indian monk says you need to, you know, sit on your cushion and meditate for eight hours a day. Is that really your path? It may not be, you know so. So we have to get in touch with our own authentic self in order to be able to walk our own authentic spiritual path, to find peace, to find purpose, to find joy and then to be able to give of ourselves authentically into the world, to make the world a better place. That only we can do. Yeah, that's it in a nutshell.

Speaker 1: 39:52

That's amazing. So I know you have a Substack newsletter that you write on and talk to me a little bit about how the listeners, where they can connect with you if they want to read more, hear more, connect with you.

Speaker 2: 40:07

Yeah, so you can check out my website, which is laurenaxelrodcom my name L-A-U-R-Y-N-A-X-E-L-R-O-D, and that's got information about when I'm teaching and podcasts and things like that. There's also my Substack, which is Radical Spirituality, and that's available on Substackcom. And then there's Facebook and there's Instagram. But I have a new book that just came out called the Ten Words right, ten Words? An Interspiritual Guide to Becoming Better People in a Better World, guide to becoming better people in a better world, and it really explores those 10 words and gives you reflection, questions and practices, suggested practices for how you can bring these 10 words into your life, to become better people in a better world. Find your authentic voice, bring your creativity into the world Beautiful.

Speaker 1: 41:00

I'll put all of that for you guys in the show notes so you can check all of that out and check out Lauren's book as well. Thank you so much for being here. This was such a fabulous conversation.

Speaker 2: 41:11

Thank you so much, renee, really a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 41:16

Thanks again, lauren, for being here. That was really insightful, really deep. I've been thinking about our conversation a lot since we recorded it and I'd love to know your feedback, guys, as you listen or watch this on YouTube. What are some of the things that this brought up for you? Let me know you can find me over on Instagram at Renee Bowen. Send me a DM, or you can always email me at Renee at Renee Bowencom, or you can always email me at renee at reneebowencom.

Speaker 1: 41:42

I would love to find out what you guys took away from this conversation, if it sparked any ideas for you or if it made you think a little bit different. That's always sort of the goal here. You know, yes, I'm a photographer. Yes, I teach you guys a lot of tried and true marketing. You know practices and I'm always constantly helping those in my coaching groups and one-on-one to better their businesses and to make more money, to be more profitable. But if we are not really living an aligned life, if we are not focusing on our personal growth, I feel like we're really we're missing a super, super important part, because everything that we do out in the world, all of our interactions, everything having to do with our business, is a direct reflection of how we feel inside, and so my goal with this podcast and with all of the coaching that I do, everything really is about helping you become the best version of yourself, the happiest version of yourself. Become the best version of yourself, the happiest version of yourself, and finding joy in each moment, because that's really all we have is the moment. Nothing else really exists. It's something that I have to remind myself of often as well, so I hope that that resonates with you guys.

Speaker 1: 42:58

Again, I'd love to hear. I get some really amazing messages from you guys, sometimes out of the blue on Instagram, and it just lights me up. I have to tell you, like someone we were just chatting about something else entirely, someone in the photography community, and at the end of the conversation she just mentioned, by the way, just keep doing what you're doing. I love your podcast and I find myself just really being inspired by it, and that just made me so happy. We weren't even talking about that, I wasn't asking her about it, she just volunteered that information, and I have to say like it just makes a huge difference for me, because sometimes it's really hard to know. You know, yes, I can see numbers and I can see downloads and all that kind of stuff. But hearing what you have to say about the podcast is really insightful for me. It helps me understand, you know, is this, is this resonating with you guys? You know, does it make sense? I'm always trying to bring you guys some maybe out of the box topics and guests, and when I get feedback like this, it just really makes it so much more worthwhile for me. So thank you so much for reaching out and letting me know and, just like anything else, if you have a good thought about somebody, tell them. So maybe that's something that you can go out and do today. If you feel like someone is doing something amazing, tell them. If you like someone's outfit, tell them. If you like someone's outfit, tell them. If you think someone has good energy, tell them, because it's always nice to hear and all that stuff is going to come right back to you. So have a happy Halloween, have a safe Halloween.

Speaker 1: 44:37

I hope you guys enjoy the night and have a great start to your November, because November and December are going to probably go super, super fast and those of you who are photographers or creative business owners, you know that this is kind of like crunch time for us, right? So I hope you're getting it all done. If you are having trouble with anything, as always, you know that I am here to help. There's lots of podcasts here for you. There's lots of free education for you guys, but if you need more than that, there's options for that too, and all those links are below in the show notes.

Speaker 1: 45:08

Just reach out. I'd love to help you and your business become profitable and for you to feel really good doing it. I am going to be having some amazing Black Friday stuff coming for you guys, so keep an eye out for that. If you're not on my mailing list, make sure that you are. That link is below, too, because you guys are going to get dibs on that and I'm going to have like daily timely sales that they're only going to be available for 24 hours and they're going to be a few of them, so you are going to want to make sure you're on my list. Thanks again for being here. I'll see you next week. Love you, bye.