Speaker 1: 0:00

your bills are just the same amount and you don't have to be small just because you live in a small town, that you are high end and the people that value what you do are going to pay for it.

Speaker 2: 0:18

Welcome to Tried and True with a dash of woo, where we blend rock solid tips with a little bit of magic. I'm Renee Bowen, your host, life and business coach and professional photographer at your service. We are all about getting creative, diving into your business and playing with manifestation over here, so are you ready to get inspired and have some fun? Let's dive in. Hey friends, welcome back to Tried and True with a dash of woo. I am your host, renee Bowen. My guest today is Kate DeCoste of Kate DeCoste Photography, based in Wahoo, nebraska. Yes, that is the real name of it, and I think it's so cute.

Speaker 2: 0:58

I've known Kate a long time. We were both members of something called we Are the Scene years ago, which was started by a group called Seniors Ignite that I was a part of and an educator with, and she was mainly a senior photographer at the time. And now she does a lot of headshots and branding, and we are talking today about a hot topic that a lot of photographers will bring up, either inside of my communities or coaching, which is I'm from a small town. How am I supposed to build a higher end business in a small town? And Kate's done it. She's done it since 2009. She's done it really well and we go into a lot of those specifics about how you can, some marketing ideas and how to make sure you create that foothold in your market, even if it's small, but this is going to be for you, regardless of whether you're from a small town or not. We talk a lot about the best practices right now that you can use to just have people find you in general, which is, hello, what we need. If you are in business and you want to make money at this, you got to be found. So we do talk a lot about marketing today, but also we dig into some mindset as well, because it's my show and that's just what we do here, so you're going to love it. You're going to love Kate. She's awesome.

Speaker 2: 2:16

Before she started photography, she wrangled backstage chaos as a stage manager in New York City and in Milwaukee, and so now she brings that same creative energy and organization and sparkle to every one of her shoots and she is now launching her own podcast called the One Behind the Lens, with Kate DeCoste, and that is a podcast for photographers building bold, beautiful businesses. It's real talk, strategy, confidence boosts for creatives ready to go from hobbyist to high end without the burnout, which is awesome, and I've also been a guest on her show too, so it was great to chat with her again and I know you're going to love this conversation we have, so let's dive in. Hey, kate, I'm so excited to chat with you here. I was recently on your podcast that's coming out and we will get to that in just a little bit, but I get to see you again, and today we're talking about something a little different.

Speaker 2: 3:13

You are from a very small town, which literally is called Wahoo, nebraska, which I love, by the way. Come on, that's just the coolest thing ever. But you've been in business for a while, so I want to ask you first of all but you've been in business for a while, so I want to ask you first of all, how long have you been in business as a photographer and what's your thing, what do you specialize in, and how do you get business from other areas? This is a big topic that a lot of photographers in my communities have. They're from these small towns, but it's hard for them to build within that area or even like pull from outside of that area, and so I know that a lot of people are going to get a lot from this conversation. So anyway, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1: 3:55

Thank you, I'm so excited, great, to be able to see you again twice in, like you know, a couple of weeks.

Speaker 2: 4:03

Okay, so tell us a little bit. What do you specialize in? How long you been at this?

Speaker 1: 4:08

So I basically opened my. Well, I didn't open the studio, but I started the photography business in 2009. And prior to that I did theater. So I'll kind of get to that in the sense of thinking big with that. And then I specialize. I mainly really was doing seniors. I'm doing more. I feel like now I'm doing a lot more headshots than seniors. Um, but it's been. It's still like that fun transition of it and I still do seniors, but I feel like it just seems like I've been doing a lot more with headshots.

Speaker 2: 4:58

Yeah, I love, I love headshots. Um, I do too. I've been doing those since like 1999 on film. So like it was like the first thing that I kind of started shooting, and because my husband's an actor. So like yes he was like hey, here's this camera.

Speaker 1: 5:14

I need some updated headshots.

Speaker 2: 5:19

It's like the running joke in our friend group. It's like, okay, you're an actor married to a photographer. Like come on.

Speaker 1: 5:25

Yeah, that's like perfect.

Speaker 2: 5:27

He's pretty spoiled. Every five minutes he's like hey, so you want to run into the studio and update some headshots? No, I actually do not want to do that today.

Speaker 1: 5:38

Thanks for asking. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 5:41

Okay, so you are able to do that where you live. Tell us a little bit about your, your small town, like where you're from. What's? What's the demographics?

Speaker 1: 5:59

Sure, sure. So Wahoo is about, it's less than 5,000 people, um, and we're really like right smack in the dab between Omaha and Lincoln. So really like, either way, if you go south you're going to hit Lincoln in 30 minutes and you're going to go the opposite direction, north, you're going to see Omaha in like 30 minutes as well, depending on where you go in those cities, but you're going to hit them at that point. So we're lucky in that sense where growing because I literally grew up, born, raised here left came back but it was easy, it was nice because you could just run into Lincoln, run into Omaha. So I feel like that's kind of how my clients are. When they're in Lincoln or Omaha they're like, oh, wahoo, that's not, that's not far to go.

Speaker 2: 6:50

That's kind of how like I grew up in a one traffic light town.

Speaker 2: 6:54

I don't know the population, but it ain't big and you know, yeah, that's why I grew up Like my front yard is a cane field backyard. Well, front yard is the Mississippi river, backyard is the cane field, like literally in the middle of nowhere, deep South Louisiana, and it's kind of similar though, like 30 minutes to Baton Rouge, 40 ish, you know, 30 to 40 minutes depending on what route you take, and like about 45 minutes to an hour to new Orleans. So it's kind of similar to that way. So, all right, when you started, what were some of the things first of all that you did to market your business, kind of just in the area, and then sort of what made you realize like, oh you know, I'd like to be able to pull in from these other areas as well, and how did you do that?

Speaker 1: 7:40

So I really, just when I first started, I was just like anyone. I was like, do you want a photo shoot, free photo shoots for everyone, omar, or even a smaller town, just to build the portfolio. And then I do think that helped with the whole word of mouth of you know, building and making relationships. But then when I was like, okay, for a small town, we actually have a couple of us photographers that are high end and which is kind of like always people are always like really I figured you would be like. You know, if you're in that small town, you're the only you know photographer and I'm nope. And also I've always thought bigger and that's why it's kind of funny to be back here, because when I was in high school I was like I'm gonna get out, be back here, because when I was in high school I was like I'm going to get out and I did, and then the fact that I came back and stayed is mind-blowing. But here it is. So I've always thought bigger and I knew there were people in these bigger cities that not that my hometown people aren't going to spend money, but there are people in these bigger cities that value what I do and they will travel or they'll pay me to travel to them that small distance.

Speaker 1: 9:20

So doing the SEO on Google has really changed really everything I have on my form. When you contact me on my website, there's a question that says when did you hear about Kate? And I would say 99% of the time it's Google, nice. And so that I'm like, okay, that's true, that's a real thing. Yeah, it is, it's, it's real and I try to do the google my business like it's a free tool really where I can, you know, post little things that I'm doing. And you know, I try to do that as much as I'm doing my social media part, because I think sometimes we get so honed in which I love social media, I love doing TikTok, I love doing Instagram, but I don't really hear of anybody saying they're, you know, they're not writing on the form. I heard you from TikTok or Instagram, so I have to remember like to use that Google my business and that's that's really where I feel like I'm getting these people from Lincoln and Omaha to find me.

Speaker 2: 10:31

That's awesome and such a good reminder. I kind of feel like I'm always harping on that. So thanks for sure.

Speaker 2: 10:38

Yeah, it's something I'm always talking to photographers about, and I feel like like when I started in like 2007, it was it was a thing where I was like, okay, I need to learn SEO, and my brain immediately shut down yes, but I knew it was important, right, and so I feel like we kind of heard about it then and then we're hearing about it now, but like I feel like there was a span of time where people were like you know, social media, social media, seo is not really whatever like not as many people, let's say not as many photographers, were probably as focused, at least from what I could see. I feel like people kind of like fell off that wagon a little bit or stopped thinking that it was that important and they weren't blogging.

Speaker 2: 11:26

And then a whole, like you know, people aren't reading blogs, and I was always like it's not about that, it's not about whether people are reading your blogs, it's about the SEO. So I'm really glad that that's working for you and that you can actually see where it's coming from, too, cause that's really important to be able to track for sure.

Speaker 1: 11:49

Yeah, yeah, I would definitely like, if you don't have something on your form that just says where did you hear about me? Like just add that, because that I didn't always have that on there and when I did, it was a game changer, you know, sometimes you do have it where, like somebody else, you know it's a word of mouth, but um, which is night, you know, then you can reach out to those people as well, um, but yeah, it's definitely, and like going with the blog too, like yes, like I don't think I don't know if people are are really reading my blog, you know all the time. But that's another thing that I know is helping.

Speaker 2: 12:38

And, um, yeah, I do push out at least once a month is my goal. If I do more, yay. But my once Google my Business, but I try and automate it as much as possible and then I tend to sort of forget about it for a little bit, but it is really important. And the blogging just in and of itself, if you're just using SEO and the way that it's meant to be used, that's a really big thing. So it's really.

Speaker 2: 13:00

I've always had that on my form too, just as a side note, just like where'd you find me? Cause I you know, yeah, we can dig into it. We can look at all our you know some analytics online and kind of see, like, maybe, where people are coming from, um, inside of your Google analytics. But it's way easier if people just tell you that on the forum. So, like you know, add that if you guys don't have that already, it's a really good indicator, cause it's very important that we're looking at, like, where people are finding us. A lot of my clients do find me on TikTok and Instagram, do they? Yeah, I get a lot. Usually the teenagers will find me there, but I get a lot from Google, like I would Google's the top from of like where I get my leads from, and then I would say TikTok is right behind that, and then Instagram, and then Pinterest, which is really interesting.

Speaker 1: 13:46

Yeah, I don't ever have anyone saying that they, but I feel like my Pinterest account, I'm always like where are all these people like you know, where they're checking things out, and kind of like TikTok, where I'm like, well they're, they're there and they're seeing it, and I don't know if maybe they're going to Google then later. I don't know, but yeah it's all important Definitely.

Speaker 2: 14:09

So, okay, getting back to how intentional, basically, were you and are you now in that? So like, yeah, we're talking about doing the Google my Business and stuff like that, but, like you obviously know who your client is. And just kind of a little side note too, like you were mentioning, it's not that people in your area don't want high-end photography. It's a numbers game, right? Really, at the end of the day, like there's only so many people in the town you know what I mean, right? Yes, yes, so that's a big part of it is like okay, well, and that's something I hear from photographers a lot. First of all, it is 100% possible to build a high end business in the small town Like you're. You're a proof of that. I have tons of proof of that in my communities. It definitely can and does happen, and you also need to be doing what you're doing. You also need to be like expanding into these other areas and being intentional about it. So are you doing a lot of in-person marketing as well?

Speaker 1: 15:11

Yes, and that's always that's hard for me, like I don't. I mean, I just you know, it's just that thing where you're, just you know. If you know who I am, because, again, it's small town, you might know who I am. But what's funny if you saying that is, I just was at a store in Omaha, like a clothing, a clothing store, and they didn't. The person checking me out didn't recognize me by my face. But when I gave my credit card she saw my name and she was like are you that photographer? And I was like well, yes, I.

Speaker 2: 15:51

I know I love when that happens. It's always when I give the credit card.

Speaker 1: 15:54

It's so funny, yes, where they see, it's like they see the name and it all clicks and maybe they do recognize your face, but they're not exactly you know exactly sure with like TikTok and stuff. So I've been better at the in-person of, especially like I'm part of different communities in Lincoln, like I'm part of the Junior League and things like that. So I try to be a little bit more of like this is you know, I'm not just Kate at the Junior League, but I'm a photographer more of like this is you know, I'm not just Kate at the junior league, but I'm a photographer and you know, especially like doing, like branding or you know, those women that I'm around. So, yeah, I definitely, like I said, it's hard to put yourself out there, but it's definitely something that I think it's not. I don't feel like it's cringy at all where people will be like, oh, you're a photographer.

Speaker 2: 16:50

Yeah, so, yeah, it's important, though I think and that's something that I talk to my clients about a lot and I'm an introvert, I don't love doing the in-person stuff, like I don't, I don't like going to the networking events- I don't want to write especially at this point in my life like, at the end of the day, I don't want to, but I do want my business to thrive and survive Right, and so I just try and approach it and I try and help clients approach it, especially fellow introverts, in the way that it's like, ok, you can do this in small pieces, you can take the baby steps. I'm not going to go out there and try and schedule all of these extroverted events in one week for myself. That would burn me out and make me feel really icky. But I can schedule one every couple of weeks or something like that. You got to just know your comfort level with that, I think. And if you have a buddy that you can do it with, that's always a little bit easier too. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:47

Yeah, I feel like if I had you just need that one person, just that one buddy to go with and yeah, there's a few things that I can do that I've been telling myself in Omaha there are some in person just getting together with other business people and I'm like I really need to just, yeah, just just do it, and I need to just get a buddy and and go.

Speaker 2: 18:14

It really does help a lot.

Speaker 2: 18:15

But and also just kind of breaking it down into small pieces like that, don't overwhelm yourself into trying to have to do all the things. But I feel like I mean, I feel like that's just important for all of us, all of us photographers, anybody who's really running a business, especially if you're trying to pull in people from the area or surrounding areas to be present somewhat in the community. It's not your thing Like it's all good, but you do need to have some of that on your radar, because that word of mouth, especially for those of us who are more higher end and charge more right Than the average person, that is kind of a big piece of it. I have found for sure. So, yeah, like people might find you on Google, but also people tell me this all the time too, which I think is really interesting. Well, they might find me on Google, but then, if they kind of then from Google go to my socials, they kind of see, oh, this person also knows this person, and then they have more points of reference and touch points with me.

Speaker 1: 19:16

You know what I mean. Oh yeah, yes, well, yeah, it's that. Yeah, the, just that kind of clarification and being like oh, they know, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. Well, if they like them, then exactly, exactly.

Speaker 2: 19:31

And then they get to kind of go down that rabbit hole of all your content and find out, and so, yeah, I think all those touch points are super important. Okay, so I want to also touch really quickly on pricing. Just a little bit, not a lot. I just do hear a lot of photographers asking me and just kind of voicing concerns about, well, I can't really charge that much because of where I live, right, like, because of the demographics in my area, let's say, the small town not saying you're small town is like this. But a lot of photographers who live in small towns will say this is not a wealthy community, this is not a community that's going to spend a lot of money. I'm having a hard time, I can pull from other places and that's great, but I do want to start pulling from my community. Anyway, all that to say. What would you say to a photographer who says I can't charge that much because of where I live.

Speaker 1: 20:24

It's funny that you say that because there is where times and when, especially when I first started out, where people after I was doing you know the free things and then I was really like, okay, I want to make this a business where people they would almost be like, well, that you know, this is Wahoo.

Speaker 1: 20:41

You can't charge that amount of money.

Speaker 1: 20:45

And I'm'm like you pay basically the same amount for a haircut here than you probably do in omaha groceries here probably, or probably more, because it's a smaller, you know smaller for sure it's probably going to be more. But I always just say, like in my head, and what I want you know I don't say this to clients, but like say in my head and to other photographers is your bills are just the same amount and you know you don't have to be small just because you live in a small town, that you are high end and you're and the people that value what you do are going to pay for it, because you might be living in a town that has, in every town town, you're gonna have people that maybe they can't, they truly cannot afford what you do, but you are gonna find people that do and they might not want to pay for it, but then they're going on, like you know, a big vacation. That's what they value. They might not value photography. So I always just say, like there's, you have to value yourself and they will come.

Speaker 2: 21:54

Yeah, no, it's true that's such a big piece of it and that's the mindset piece of it, right, like so you kind of mentioned too about it's hard to put yourself out there or maybe, like you know, like the fear of being seen, or like, especially sometimes when so many people know you in a small area, it can feel even more intimidating, like, oh, I don't want to, like you know, put myself out there. Let's say, like show up on social in a certain way or whatever. That might feel a little icky because, like, everybody that is on your feed is like knows you locally or, you know, knows you personally. And I always tell people like you just kind of have to, like you have to let that go like even if that means making those people unfollow you like those aren't your clients.

Speaker 2: 22:40

At the end of the day, if you're worried about you know like what people close to you are saying, but at the end of the day too, like that's so much of our own stuff, right, like anytime that comes up, that's really your own stuff. We're just projecting what other people are going to say. So how have you and I know you have like a theater background as well so like, how has that helped you in all of this? How has your mindset helped you in building all of this and kind of getting past, you know that that ick factor as well.

Speaker 1: 23:13

Well, I feel like it I. It is hard because I still do it and I have to tell myself I'm 47 and I'm like you, have to just move on and it's okay that not everybody likes you, and it's you know, and it and it's you know.

Speaker 1: 23:27

if they talk about you, then great, it's all word of mouth is good right um, but the theater aspect I think helps for me that I just had to keep moving on and you can't, you just have to.

Speaker 1: 23:45

Not everybody's gonna like what you see. Like you might go to a show and not like what you see, but you might go, but I didn't really like that show, but I really liked that part of it and so I just have to like think about it in in that sense and I really do think theater and living like I lived in New York for a while, that did give me like a tougher skin, and not saying that, living in a small town, if you hear about somebody maybe going to somebody else in your town and you have to be like, oh well, they don't like me, they like they wanted to go to so-and-so, and I just have to remember they might, might not like, maybe they don't like my, my style, they like another person, another photographer, style, um, and just let it go and again just say it's just how, how it is, and you just have to keep moving and you can't dwell in it.

Speaker 2: 24:42

Yes, and I don't know if I'm really answering your question.

Speaker 1: 24:45

Very well, but I feel like I just went into like a little circle there.

Speaker 2: 24:48

So there's that running joke, right, you know, online or whatever, you see like anyone running a small business, not even just photographers you get into it, especially if you're, you know, running a creative business. You get into it because you were probably told you were good at it and like, oh my gosh, okay, I can make money at this. And then, before you know it, oh, that means I actually have to market, oh, that means I actually have to like be, you know, showing up and doing that. And so you kind of get yourself into something sometimes where you're like I didn't realize that I had to actually, you know, be the face of my, my business. But in what we do, the branding is so much a part of that, right Like, and we, we are our brand when we are out in the community or whatever. It's like when you run a business and it's like you, this is you, yes, yes, you're the business, especially if the business has your name Right Like. So, like, you know, right, most of us have, and it's like OK.

Speaker 2: 25:59

So what that means for me is, you know, not that I have to be out and like presenting like this perfectly curated stuff. No, because that's not who I am really. So, yeah, there's that level of you know, wanting to be professional, which is great, but also being authentically yourself, because that's ultimately what people are going to be attracted to, right, like they're attracted to real people and not fake stuff. And so I know we hear that a lot and that word authenticity gets thrown around a lot, but it really is true, like it's a very important aspect of the marketing is being the most you that you can be. That's like one of my core missions in what I do is like I just want people to just be them, like the most you that you can be, because that is when you create that like ultra clear resonance, that's like laser focused, right. Like it's not about being the loudest in the room, it's about being the most focused, the most like linear, if that makes sense Right Like yes.

Speaker 2: 27:02

Like, yes, I just kind of see it in my I see the visual in my brain, but it's having a hard time like coming out into words. But you know like, instead of like wide, wide loudness, it's like laser focused, because when you are, you know speaking to the right people and you know what your brand is about, then you can do that so much more effectively. So what have you done intentionally to create like a higher end brand experience for your photography business, even without being in a big city?

Speaker 1: 27:33

I think the experience of it, of like from start to finish when you fill out well, really, even when you look at the website like I just had a client the other couple of weeks ago and he was like I chose you because when I looked at your website it wasn't stiff, it wasn't, and I was like, oh well, thank you, where I was like okay, well, that's good to know. Like he was like you were, you looked fun and he wanted more of a casual, like he'd last headshots he had. He was like I was. Just it was just very stiff. And so I feel like just starting where people can see who you are, like you were just saying, then they can start this.

Speaker 1: 28:14

It's starting there and then with the website of just making things easy to find you know, to define me, to get in contact with me because that's another thing people will tell me is like it's just been easy to contact you and get everything set up to the shoot and and then afterwards delivering still you're there. Still it's not just like the shoot ended and we're done, it's still the follow up of thank you, for you know, this was so awesome to have you in the studio or on location up until you're delivering your prints or your digitals, I feel like just keeping literally from where they find me, either on Google, my website, to that. Deliver is what really sets apart from a high end to not.

Speaker 2: 29:06

Yeah yeah, that makes sense sets apart from a high end to not yeah yeah, that makes sense. It's all about that high touch along the way, experience, like that client journey, right, like so I feel like a lot of photographers. They might start the work of you know these, these branding foundations, let's say, of like how they want their business to look and feel to their clients and they may even do their target client work. But then what about the rest of that process? What about that entire journey with your client? Where do they come in? How do you leave them? What are all those touch points along the way?

Speaker 2: 29:41

That's a really, really big part of it and if you are running like a higher end business, just in general, that is a big piece of it. Is like making people feel really taken care of, really seen, and, you know, ideally, for me that looks like being able to do that with automations and not necessarily having to like hold their hand physically through that process, right, is that what you, how you approach it as well, like this automation, crms, things like that.

Speaker 1: 30:17

Yes, and I, you know, I really just got into the automations a few years ago and I don't know why I didn't start it a lot like right away. I think it was that thing of like what do I, you know? And it's like no, this is, yes, doing it and sitting down and thinking through and getting the wording and getting everything down. Yes, it's going to take you a little bit of time, but then it's like oh yeah, they're going to get their reminders, they're going to get their prep guide, all of those things. They're going to get it all, but you're not sitting there three days prior or whatever going.

Speaker 1: 30:51

Do I have to send that? Did I send? What did I send them? Like, you know that they're going to, they're going to have it all and that they can always reach out to you if you know, if they need to. But I feel like, with the automations and as long as you have, I don't think it needs to be like super wordy but intentional, like we've been saying, like the word we've been using, but it's intentional for them, easy again, for you know, even if it's their invoice or whatever, it's just an easy. Oh, this is what I need to do and I also just approach things like how I would want something.

Speaker 1: 31:26

So think of it that way too. If you're trying to start out and go I don't know how to do this Well, how would you want to be in this experience, on the other side of it?

Speaker 2: 31:36

Yeah, that's a big piece of it. You have no idea how many websites I will go to because I see a lot of photography websites, whether people are inquiring about things in my DMS or inquiring about coaching or something and I'll always want to do a little bit of research on the person before I talk to them and I go to these websites and a lot of photographers are not even like. I just want to mention this and make sure we highlight it. The whole ease of getting in touch with you, like there's a lot of times I have gone to a website. First of all, I couldn't find the person's name.

Speaker 2: 32:08

There's been multiple times I've gone to a photography website where it's not their, their. Their name is their business name, right, and I'm trying to find out who they are like, what their name is. I can't find it anywhere, not even on the contact page. There's no about page, also where they're located. That's not anywhere on there. Like that's a huge thing, you guys. So like if you're listening and you're either just starting out or you're revamping your site or whatever you're like reworking some stuff, make sure that that's like right on the site. Like people know who you are, they know where you're located and what areas that you serve, like if you do go outside of your area, and, um how to get in touch with you. Make it easy for them to be able to get in touch with you, like multiple times, like not just one button, you know there's got to be multiple opportunities for people and put a phone number.

Speaker 2: 32:59

Like I know, like not a lot of us like to be on the phone, I get it, but I have a Google business number. Like you know, I've had it for years, right, and it's just the easiest way to do it and you can even get texts on that number, which I love. So you gotta, you gotta, have that stuff up there, like guys, if you're not doing that, like you're just literally not even doing the bare minimum.

Speaker 1: 33:19

So Right, well, make it easy, yes.

Speaker 1: 33:23

And also, if you are someone like me who is in a smaller community and or in any community that you're, but you want to reach others, I definitely have your location, because I'm with SEO or I'm pushing where I'm trying to reach people in other than they're like you know, I have had where people are like, oh, you're in Wahoo, ok well, and they still will come to me, but you want to Wahoo Okay Well, and they still will come to me, but you want to make sure.

Speaker 1: 33:49

So, like once someone said that to me a long time ago I like literally on every page of my website, on the bottom, it literally says where to find Kate, and then it's a map and it has my studio address. All of that because I don't want anyone to think I'm in Omaha or Lincoln and be like, well, great, I can just go five minutes and it's like, oh no, it's going to be, it's going to for them, it'll be a little bit of an afternoon or a morning, so yeah, yeah, it's similar to me because I'm about 35 miles north of LA.

Speaker 2: 34:23

So and LA is huge, obviously, right, right, well, you know my studio isn't in LA. So in LA is huge, obviously, right, right, well, you know my studio isn't in LA. If people are coming to me, if they want to come to me, for seniors is not as as important necessarily because I'm doing so much location work with that. It's, it's most, it's all location, and so I go to them. However, they do come to me for hair and makeup here and headshots and branding, you know here. So that's a really big piece of it is that you want to make sure that's really, really clear for people, just in general, so that you guys get found faster. Like, just make it easy on people. Just don't overthink it, like I feel like just a lot of us, especially with us creative brains, right, like we just tend to overthink it and then we shut down.

Speaker 1: 35:15

Yes, yes, just a lot of us over, especially with us creative brains, right like. We just tend to overthink it and then we shut down. Yes, yes, yes. And I feel like too, and I was a stage manager, so I was always on the back end of things, and so it's been just new for me really to be like not just on the contact page to have my photo, but to kind of really people want to know who you are and I've had to be like okay, on my homepage I'm going to put my photo and obviously on the contact page, and now I actually have it on my blog page and people they do, they want to see you and again, I'm the same way.

Speaker 1: 35:43

I want to see who I'm looking at. So many people come to me for like LinkedIn headshot. You know they're like I just need a quick LinkedIn because people want to see you know, because we're at that time where everybody wants to see you. So I always say that too where start putting your face? And all of the other things we just talked about.

Speaker 2: 36:01

But on the homepage. Yeah, absolutely I agree, and I know that that's not most of us, that's not our comfort zone, cause, like we're photographers, we prefer to be behind the camera. But you're, you're so right, like people really need that touch point and you just want to make it as seamless as possible for people, you know, I mean, just that's really what it's about, okay, so I want to kind of move into another little mindset question that I think it's super important. What do you think is a belief or a rule right that you've broken in your business that helped you grow faster?

Speaker 1: 36:42

I know Throwing, you throwing you for a loop there, yeah, like ooh. Well, I do think, going back to when I joined, we Are the Scene and with senior photography, I feel like that's when people were like, oh, that's when the specializing of seniors kind of came in with doing that and doing the challenges that we had monthly. And I don't anymore have a model team, but for years had a model team and having them do those shoots and getting that out there and for them to talk about it and to put it out on social media and to see that I was doing something different than what you might think of a senior photo would be and that, yes, that was the modeling program.

Speaker 1: 37:35

But hey, you can still do this. If you really want to have gold leaf on your face, or whatever you know, for part of your senior session, we can totally do it. That, I feel like, broke the mold a little bit in my I feel like in my area and I don't really feel like there were very many photographers doing modeling programs at that time either. So that kind of put me out there and it definitely helped again because I was just really starting out. That definitely pushed me to break the mold from all the other photographers.

Speaker 2: 38:06

Yeah, standing out is so important.

Speaker 2: 38:08

Standing out. I could not think. Yeah, I mean and that's how you know, that's how Kate and I met was through Seniors Ignite. We were at the scene. Like you know, being involved in groups like that can be a really great opportunity, not just to find like-minded friends and photographers who are kind of doing, you know, the same thing, but also, like you said, to expand outside of your area and get noticed in a different way. You know it is, but it's about getting noticed for being different. And now, now, it's even more important.

Speaker 1: 38:44

Yeah, I was just going to say that, yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:46

Because there's so many people like just the sheer numbers of people, and I'm not one of those people who's like, oh my God, the market's so saturated. No, I think that the fact that it's saturated is a good sign. It means that there's a demand there, and I'm also a big believer in abundance mindset, that there's more than enough for everybody. There doesn't need to be any gatekeeping or whatever because, like you said earlier, you're just a different kind of photographer. People are going to find who they're looking for. What's meant for you is always going to be for you. I really believe when you are standing in that resonance, when you are putting out a very clear signal of who you are and who you want to serve and what you do, your people will come. Like you said earlier, like you build it, they will come, and that's what that's about. Yeah, it's just so important to be zigging when people are zagging or whatever that saying is Right.

Speaker 2: 39:36

Or like it's Seth Godin always says, you know, being that purple cow, like what's going to? Oh, yeah for sure. So that's good. I'm glad you brought that up, because a lot of people are always thinking about, like, well, how am I going to do that? Okay, well, what isn't being done? Right, like I always tell people like what is something that lights you up that maybe no one else is doing? Or just kind of get creative, do a brain dump about some things, or use Chats to be easy for your brain dump.

Speaker 2: 40:02

Now, whatever that is Right, right, I'm up with something a little different. And uh, and really stand in it, stand in the confidence of like yeah, this is, this is a different thing. So, um, and I know you don't do a team anymore because you're not doing as many seniors anymore, but just in general, you've always kind of talked about too and you've always sort of like led with this, helping people feel confident and seen in your photos. So like, how do you think that comes across when people find you on Google, when people find you on your website or anything like that? You know, let's say Google. When people find you on your website or anything like that, you know, let's say people, some somebody's reaching out to you for a headshot or branding. Um, I know we've been talking about branding and how important it is to be authentic in all of that, but what are some of the ways that you help people do that?

Speaker 1: 40:52

Well, I feel like you know, everybody wants like, even if you're you are an introvert and there might be days where you're like, oh, I don't want to talk to anybody, or whatever. But we do as humans. I feel like we, literally we want to be seen Like when someone asks me, hey, how's your day going, I want them to actually truly ask me that and I truly want them to actually truly ask me that and I truly want, if I'm going to ask you, hey, how are you doing today?

Speaker 1: 41:23

I don't want to that to say, because that's what you're supposed like, that's polite and that's what we're supposed to say when we see somebody. I truly want I don't you know. And I mean if you say, oh, I'm okay, I mean, but if the way you say it, then I'm going to probably know if you really are okay or not. Yeah, but I just feel like we all, especially now, I mean, I think, with social media, everything, we're all saturated with all sorts of craziness and our political environment is crazy, which it doesn't matter which way. You know where you are, where you stand on things, but it's a world of chaos right now. So when you come in to the studio or I'm shooting with you on location, either a senior or a headshot client, I truly want you to feel seen, and not just because I'm photographing you.

Speaker 1: 42:13

Yes, I'm going to, you're being seen in my camera and but I want that day to be the best, the best time. And you know, maybe things are not going very well right now or you know, whatever it is, but in that hour or three hours, whatever it was, you've kind of forgot and you know you just had a great time. And it's kind of the same with me, like you know, sometimes when I'm doing a shoot and I might have like the day before or even an hour before, I'm like oh, maybe.

Speaker 1: 42:46

I got some not so great news or whatever, but when you have someone in and I have a great time with you, you know, at least for that hour or whatever, I felt seen and felt like you know. At least for that hour or whatever, I felt seen and felt like you know things were okay.

Speaker 2: 42:59

Yeah, no, that is such a good point because I cannot tell you and I am so guilty of this myself, but it's. I think this is like a universal photographer thing and maybe maybe an introvert thing, I don't know. But like I've heard so many of like my coaching students say this, just like anybody in my communities, and I know firsthand, I've definitely gone through this where it's like I'm just not feeling it for whatever reason. Right, like I'm like, oh my God, like I don't like maybe I'm just a little burnout, Maybe I've just gotten, you know, been shooting too much or whatever.

Speaker 2: 43:31

I don't feel like going. I don't, I don't want to do it you. I don't feel like going, I don't, I don't want to do it you know, obviously that's not an option unless it's right. Sometimes it's raining and I'm like, yes, but um most of the time not you know, because it just means you have to reschedule and that's a nightmare in and of itself.

Speaker 2: 43:49

But there's that thing of like okay, I don't, I'm not feeling this today, but then you go and the minute the client walks in the door, everything is fine, everything's good.

Speaker 2: 43:59

It's like there's something to say about that and I think it really has a lot to do with like, first of all, when you're doing something that you really love and it does light you up yeah, there are going to be days I think that you're like okay, I'm just tired. I don't know if I feel like doing this, like you said, like there could be a lot going on in the world or in your family life. Obviously, like, things are going to happen, life is going to life and you're not going to feel it sometimes. But the minute we start working with our clients and it just clicks like something, it's like a switch turns on and it's not about you anymore, not them, but at the same time, like you said, you're getting filled up so much because of the energy exchange that's happening and if that's not like a true indicator of the fact that we're just literally balls of energy walking around in human bodies.

Speaker 1: 44:49

I don't know what is like. Honestly Right, yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 44:51

It's like we're just balls of energy like bouncing off of each other and you can tell sometimes your energy does not bounce well with someone else's energy and it's a little bit of a friction, but not with my clients. Honestly, even though my clients may be very different from me obviously they're coming from maybe a different walk of life, different backgrounds. There's something about it that just we gel and then all of a sudden I'm like in it and I just feel really lit up by helping them feel like the best version of themselves, and I know that that's kind of what you talk about as well. So I just wanted to kind of touch on that for a second, because I feel like it's universal, that photography goes through this.

Speaker 1: 45:33

Yeah, yes.

Speaker 2: 45:36

It's like the running joke, right? Okay, before we wrap up in a second, I do want to talk about your podcast that's coming up, um, and just a couple of questions about that, cause I'm always always interested in, just in general, I love podcasts, but like, what motivated you to do it and all that? I want to kind of get there. But before we do that, I always do like to and I kind of touched on that for a second there with the whole energy thing but what is something that you do that would be considered woo or mindset or something not strategy-related, let's say, to your business that helps you daily?

Speaker 1: 46:11

kind of do your thing I feel like probably the biggest thing that I probably do every single morning is I have to. I literally have to have. I'm not one of those people that can just get up and get ready and go to work and like I, you know, and I probably with theater and things like that, it was kind of the same way Like I feel like I, just I just, and as I get older, I have to have where I get up and I have to. It doesn't matter if I'm getting, you know, I have to be somewhere at eight o'clock in the morning. I have to get myself to get up earlier. So I have time to just sit in the quiet with and I love coffee, so like with a cup of coffee, and I might scroll, scroll some social media or you know things like that. But it's just, I can't just be like I gotta go and I've never been, and I really have never been a morning person, so maybe that's, that's what it is, so I'm not raring to go right out.

Speaker 1: 47:10

Yeah, no no, Like I'm awake but I'm not on. Maybe is all the way turned on.

Speaker 2: 47:18

I get that I do. It's so interesting to me talking to people about this because you really need to know that about yourself. I feel like, especially as a solopreneur, I feel like so many of us, especially women, tend to try and like make ourselves do something that we think we should be doing, that other like maybe some guru has told us that we should be doing. Let's say, right, like you know, I've got to have like this full on 30 minute to 60 minute morning routine where I go outside, I put my feet on grass, I get my face in the sun and then I breathe air and then I go for a walk and then I meditate and I'm like who has time for that? Right, right, right, no, and energy. So for me, I am one of those people like I'm not one of those people. My husband's more like you, like he likes a slower morning. This is very common, I feel like, for people who have a lot going on in their brain. Right, like he's a creative and he also doesn't sleep as well. So like that also comes into play and he likes just a little bit slower start. It's really hard for him to just get up and go. I'm kind of the opposite. I'm like the get up and go person, because if I'm having a slow morning, that puts me in a slow state for the rest of the day, which is really weird. That's just how my brain works. So I like to get up and either go immediately out for a walk or get in the shower and get going. You know what I mean. Like I and then I will, I will take my cause.

Speaker 2: 48:50

I'm very big on like what's your 15 minutes of non-negotiables every morning. So if I go for a walk, that's my non-negotiable because that's my mindset. Like I get a lot done on that walk internally, you know, there's a lot of things that happen. So I'm either like sorting some stuff out, I'm planning my day, or I'm just relaxing, like, honestly, it can be very meditative for me, depending on what I'm listening to. So like, if I do a walk, then that's my 15 minutes, but if I don't go for the walk, then I'm going to take 15 minutes. I'm going to do a little bit of gratitude. I might, you know, close my eyes, do a little bit of a small meditation, but I'm talking 15 minutes like nothing crazy, nothing long, because then I feel like I can't get started if I take that long if that makes sense, you know yeah, but it's really important for us to know yeah, and honor, and honor it and and be okay with it and be okay that you're not like your friend, or yeah, they do something different.

Speaker 2: 49:48

It's okay, exactly. Yeah, no, I I hear that all the time from like one of the things I'll do with people inside of coaching is help them create that, because a lot of times you, you know, I'll ask somebody like what, what do you like to do in the morning? Like what, what's your thing? And so many people don't even really know and they're like I don't know, I just do this because I think I'm supposed to. You know what I mean. Like I just feel like I gotta, I just gotta get it done. And then they're in a reactive state all day because they've kind of been on their phone from the get-go and all that stuff. And so, again, human design, I think, does come into play. Do you know your human design? I do not. Okay.

Speaker 1: 50:23

I mean, I hope you figure that out, yeah.

Speaker 2: 50:26

And you just send me your birthday information, I can find out for you. But I think it's a really big factor, truly, and I'm not certified in human design. I have no desire to be. It's a big topic. People study it for years and years, but I like to use it inside of my coaching just so that I can, like, help people. Well, basically, it helps me coach people better because it's like almost like a cheat code. I'm like, oh okay, this is your energy type, now I can. I really can get a good picture of how that person will learn, how they access information, things like that, and I can customize things better. But also it's a really great opportunity to help them learn more about themselves and it's a great self-awareness tool. So I do think that that comes into play a little bit too. But that's just the book.

Speaker 1: 51:12

Yeah, I'm sure I will. I feel like all of that, yeah it, all of it does just you know, we were talking about the moon and all of that like, oh, that's why I was probably being like that. Yeah, totally Blame it on the moon.

Speaker 2: 51:24

That's my that's my thing. It's a damn full moon. So you have a podcast launching soon, and so people are going to be able to find you there. I'm not sure when this episode is going to air, but I'm on your podcast. So I'm not sure when it's going to air, but it's probably more than likely that this episode will come out after that. So yours is called the One Behind the Lens. Yes, what made you want to start a podcast?

Speaker 1: 51:49

So I have done a podcast with my chamber. So I'm on the chamber board and a few years ago the president and then I was the vice president we were talking about like different things of like what can we do, and I was like we should try to do. Well, first we were going to try to do like let's do like a little talk show thing, and I was like that. And then I was like that's like, wait, no, let's not do that. So then I was like, let's try to figure out a podcast. So, cut to a couple years later we've been doing a podcast for the chamber, chamber chat with Kate and Kat, if you ever want to know what's happening in Wahoo. So we started that and I just really, I just have really enjoyed, enjoyed the platform. I just have really enjoyed, enjoyed the platform. So then I did try another little podcast with a friend that we kind of just you know, I feel like sometimes when you do it with other people it's hard, and so it kind of fizzled out and it was more like a gen x type thing and it was very fun like she's a childhood friend of mine but it just that was just too hard. So so I was like, okay, I really love this, I want to do it and I need to do it by myself.

Speaker 1: 53:00

And I honestly didn't know what I was going to talk about. And I know people will be like, well, why wouldn't you know to talk about photography? But I was like, but that's not everything that I love. But I was like I think maybe talking to people that are in there earlier, one to three years, maybe that would be a good audience and more not where I had to like research, because I was thinking of, like, do I want to do something with crime? And like that, Though we have so many crime, you know crime podcasts, but I love them all. But then I was like, that's a lot of research Are you going to be able to do you know, like you can't, and not that I'm like, oh, I can just talk about photography and just, but I know it, yeah. So I felt like that was a better fit. And then getting to, you know talk to have you on and, you know, have other photographers on, and having the conversation part of it, too, has been been fun.

Speaker 2: 53:59

Good, I'm glad that you think it's fun, cause I think it's really fun. I was surprised about how fun I think it is.

Speaker 1: 54:05

Yeah, I know, I know.

Speaker 2: 54:09

You know, cause, like I was when I started, I was like, okay, like I, I definitely want to do this, but like, is there going to be too much work? Am I going to be?

Speaker 2: 54:17

able to do it All that stuff right. That's stuff you got to think about, but it's been super fun. So I'm yeah, I'm really excited to see where yours goes, and I kind of had the same thing when I started. Mine was like, well, I am a photographer, but I don't want to just talk about photography. I do a lot of other things coach other people, not just photographers. So I get that that sort of like you don't want to box yourself in and really you don't have to like no matter what you name it, at the end of the day you're free to talk about whatever the hell you want to talk about your show, right, right, well, and that's why I thought that too, where I was like especially like you know, listening to yours and listening to other you you know where I'm like.

Speaker 1: 54:55

Okay, it's not literally, just here's your lens and here you know like we can talk about life, and yeah, yeah, because we're more than just our business.

Speaker 2: 55:04

You know, especially like us as anyone who's just like a solopreneur, like kind of doing it on their own, whatever. You are the business, but you also are human. You're a human being and you're out there living your life and doing fun stuff and having experiences, and I think all the conversations are important and you never know who is listening, who also feels seen and heard, and that's pretty cool.

Speaker 1: 55:29

So I'm excited for you.

Speaker 2: 55:32

Thank you Well, so okay, tell people where you like to connect with them before we wrap up. I mean, I could chat with you for for a long time about all of this stuff, but we ain't got all day. So, we know the podcast is coming out. Do you know a release date? It may be after this already comes out, but say it anyway.

Speaker 1: 55:49

Well, August 4th will be the release day, so it's coming up, um, but then they'll be on there and, uh, you can find it, um and then um. So I'm sure yours will be in that aug, like that sometime in august time frame, um, and then I'm on instagram, just k to coast. You don't have to put the photography, just k to coast facebook, tiktok, of course. Yeah, um, and I'm k to coast on that too. So have to put the photography, just Kate to coast, facebook, tik TOK, of course, yeah, and I'm Kate to coast on that too. So it's kind of easy just to to find me on.

Speaker 2: 56:22

I'll link all of those platforms. Perfect, yeah, all the links for people, as they can find you and they can go listen to your show too. So thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 1: 56:30

This. Thank you so much. This was awesome.

Speaker 2: 56:35

That was super fun. I always love chatting with Kate. She's just a joy and just brings such great energy to everything she does. So you guys, make sure you go and follow her, listen to her show, give her a review and a rating and all the things that I ask you to do here as well. It really does help us little podcasters a lot.

Speaker 2: 56:54

I hope that you got some really awesome takeaways from today's show and, regardless of where you are in your business and regardless of how big your area is, there were some really great marketing takeaways that I hope you walk away with. And if you found this valuable, of course, I'd love to hear from you. You can hit me up over on Instagram at Renee Bowen, and if you feel like the show was valuable, please share it with a friend. If you do share about it online, make sure you tag me so I can come give you a shout out as well. And wherever you are in your business, remember you got to show up. If you want people to come, you've got to be willing to show up, and nobody cares as much as you do.

Speaker 2: 57:33

So get out of your head and just do it. Just do one small thing today that's gonna move your business forward, okay, yes, a lot of mindset is involved in that, I get it, but don't overthink this. Just something small. Just get out there and do it. People aren't gonna be able to find you if you're not talking about yourself, because, unfortunately, we have to be our own PR agents. It's not like we can really afford a whole team of people talking about us out there. We got to do that for ourselves and I understand how cringy it feels, but it's a it's a necessary evil and it can be fun. Okay, so hopefully you are doing that, and if you need help with any of that, you know where to find me. It's what I do inside of coaching and we customize it to you. So I hope you guys have a really great rest of your day and I'll talk to you soon. Love you, bye.