Control, Burnout, And A Wake-Up Call

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This invisible cost of trying to do it all and caring it all. And then we on top of that is all the resentment that you build towards the business that you actually used to love, you know, and that you created to have all this freedom and this life. And then now it's just pulling all your energy and you know, you're resenting. You don't want this anymore. If you think five years from now, would you want to continue in this path? You know, where is this gonna lead?

Host Welcome And Show Setup

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Welcome to Tried and True with a Dash of Woo, where we blend rock solid tips with a little bit of magic. I'm Renee Bowen, your host, life and business coach, and professional photographer. At your service, we are all about getting creative, diving into your business, and playing with manifestation over here. So are you ready to get inspired and have some fun? Let's dive in. Hello and welcome back to Friday and Tree with a Dash of Woo. I'm your host, Renee Bowen. And it's been a minute since I've been here in your podcast list.

Why A Pause Was Necessary

SPEAKER_02 1:02

I took a tiny break from the podcast because sometimes that's just what you need to do. I don't like to necessarily do seasons for the show because I do really enjoy, I like I love doing the show and I enjoy putting out a weekly show. Uh, but this has been just a busy season for me, just you know, especially in my other business, which is my photography business. It's also been busy in my coaching business. And then I also just had a lot of other things going on. I just returned from an amazing retreat into Loom that I do want to talk just a little bit about because it ties into today's guest. And I'll get to her in just a second. She's awesome. You guys are gonna love this episode because it is very timely for a lot of us. Uh, that whole title of why control is costing you more than you think, right? A lot of us have that issue of trying to control everything, and then we end up just like restricting everything because we're holding everything too tightly. And that's kind of what I experienced going into this retreat, right? So I signed up for this mixer mine last year

Tulum Retreat And Letting Go

SPEAKER_02 2:06

at this time. My friend Ellen Yin had been a part of the mixer mine, which is led by an amazing woman named Linda Sadou. And she loved it. She was like, Renee, you got to be in this. It's great for making better online connections, growing your podcasts, growing your speaking opportunities, all these things, right? And I was like, okay, okay, okay. Um, I felt like I had the capacity to do something like a mastermind, but definitely not at the level of a mastermind, a traditional mastermind anyway, because that does tend to require a lot of your time and it's they're very costly. So I wasn't in a position to be able to do that last year. But this felt really accessible. And it's a much lower price point. Um, I felt like, okay, I can I can dig in at my level of capacity. I don't have to over-schedule myself. Let's just kind of see how this goes. And I really wanted to, you know, get on other podcasts. I wanted to expand my audience. I wanted to dig into some other pieces of my business that I was interested in learning and growing, learning more about and growing as well. So, you know, things like AI and uh things like, you know, digging more into this heart-centered metaphysical coaching that is really what I do, but I don't really talk about, right? So anyway, I also was able to get a lot of these other amazing mixer mind members on my podcast that you guys have been able to meet over the course of this last year. And part of being in the mixer mind is that you have the opportunity to go into this in-person retreat. So I signed up for it. I was like, yes, this is gonna be amazing. I can room with Ellen. It'll be a great week away. We extended our trip. So, like, you know, the the actual retreat was three days. We're like, we're gonna go in a day earlier, we're gonna leave a day after, so that we can do a little bit of integration and really get the feeling that I went away, you know, and unplugged. And I needed this so badly, you guys. Um there's just been so much going on in my life personally and professionally. And I was, I went into this retreat feeling really, really burnt out, really burnt out. And you guys know I talk about listening to those whispers, and I've been hearing those whispers myself all year, which is another reason why I took a little tiny break from the podcast. Sometimes you just gotta do that. So I went into this retreat knowing that I needed to unplug, that I needed to be away physically, like really away, alone. You know, I'm a two-for human design, I'm a generator, but I'm a two-for emotional generator. And that two line, if you guys know anything about human design, is so incredibly important for us to be able to go into our hermit phase. I need to go within. And I mean like alone. And I mean like in quiet to really just integrate everything. It's such a recharge for me, and I haven't been able to really do that much this year. So I went into this retreat with that intention. Like, if nothing else, I just want to walk away feeling more restored, more relaxed, and less burnt out, honestly. So I didn't have like these big, big, big crazy expectations. I didn't put a lot of things on my to-do list for this. I just kind of wanted to just see how it unfolded. And it ended up being probably one of the most transformational weeks of my adult life, truly. And no, I didn't do plant medicine, I didn't microdose or anything like that. Um, that's not part of the retreat,

Masculine Drive Vs Feminine Receiving

SPEAKER_02 5:45

but you know, some people do their own thing, you know, and that's fine. But I I've I really was able to let go, which I've talked about a lot here. That that is sort of the key to everything, being able to let go. But in our everyday life, it's very difficult to be able to do that. And it's understandable. Like we have families, and as these high achieving um women, entrepreneurs, founders, we we tend to take on a lot and we tend to live a lot in our masculine energy. That's what gets us to get stuff done. And that's that's really awesome. I love, I love limiting in my masculine energy. I feel like super productive when that happens. I I love getting things done. I I love making things happen and and I really enjoy making money. I do. Like I'm unapologetic about that. But I've been really denying that feminine part for a lot of reasons that you know, I think a lot of us can identify with. But it's easy to slip into the masculine and stay there, especially when you are the the runner of the house. Like you're the one who does all the things, right? You're the one who makes sure that people get places on time, that we have enough food in the house, that you know, all of these little different pieces of bills get paid, et cetera. It can be a lot. And that's kind of where I was at. And I'm not gonna really be able to explain in in detail here because that would probably take two hours, but I will tell you that if you are feeling that in your life right now, I honor it. You know, it doesn't have to be going to Tulum. I I get that. It's not super accessible for everybody. Um, you can have a staycation, you can just set aside a day or two of just like doing nothing, unplugging. You can maybe stay at a hotel locally. Like there are a lot of different ways you can do this without costing you a lot of money. All right. So I I know that it's not accessible for everybody to do that, but you can find a way to do this if you're feeling the urge for this, because it is really important for us to be doing. And what's really cool about the mixer mine in general is that Linda doesn't overschedule this. So it's funny because when I got on the plane, so I got on the plane home, and my seat mate, who was like we had the middle seat open, which was always awesome. We were like, yes, score. So in comes this really adorable, amazing woman who I could tell was probably at some sort of retreat as well, like a different one in Tulum. And she sat on the window seat. I was in the aisle, and we talked briefly. She, of course, she was a photographer. Like, I'm always gonna find my people, right? Um, but she was there actually working this event for female founders as the photographer. And uh I asked her, I was like, Did you have a nice time? Like, you know, um, did you were you able to relax and unplug? And she was like, it was really amazing and the resort was incredible, but no, it was definitely not that kind of retreat. It was like very scheduled. I mean, it sounded like they had a lot of events scheduled throughout the day, like a lot of activities that they were doing. And she was like, I'm kind of exhausted. And I'm like, ooh, you know, um, so you know, that's fine if that's your thing. But like when I go on a retreat, I don't, I don't want that.

The Power Of Unscheduled Connection

SPEAKER_02 9:15

And I love that Linda listens to her community of Mixer Mind members because collectively most of us were like, yeah, no, we don't, we don't want that. We don't want to be overscheduled. We want to be by the pool in the cabanas, we want to be at the ocean. We can still get a lot of these, you know, um insights and collaborations and connections happening when we're playing. And that's what made this so impactful for me. Because I walked away with like several new ideas, strategies, you name it. Most of that came from being by the pool, you know, or in the pool, talking to fellow mix reminders and just brainstorming and bouncing ideas back and forth off of each other. And that's more impactful for me because I'm not trying to make it happen. I have an open head center in human design. If you do as well, you know, like things just sort of need to drop in. I can't force it, I can't make it happen. And so this just felt like easy and fun and like play. And it made things integrate like I got it. And on top of that, I was able to connect with some of the women there at a level that I've not really been able to do in other containers, at least not for a while. So I found some really I found some soul sisters, and yeah, we had like had some Zooms over the year, like we met a little bit, but you can only really get to know somebody so much over a Zoom. And this is actually gonna hold true for today's guest nada, and I'll get to that in a second and why. But I really connected deeply with several amazing women this week who I know are going to be lifelong friends, collaborators. Uh we're gonna work together. Like it's kind of amazing. And that wouldn't have happened if Linda had like overscheduled us to where we're just sitting in a conference room all day. Like, that's not why I want to go do this. So, yeah, there were two mornings where we were in a conference room from like nine to 12, but even in that space, it wasn't like learn from me. I know this technique. It was very interactive and out of the box, which I really love. So thank you, Linda, for that. Again, I've already thanked you in person, but thank you again for that because it was really impactful. And I'm not the only one who had that experience. I was able to do a little full moon ceremony with some of the women there, uh, because we had a really powerful full moon while we were there. And it was just awesome. It was a really great experience. I highly recommend uh everyone do something

Retreat Takeaways And New Clarity

SPEAKER_02 12:05

like this. And if you are interested in this, like if you're a coach, if you have a podcast, if you are looking to expand your speaking engagements or just kind of like get into a new audience, make better connections with other women, like-minded women. Um, she is signing up 2026 Mixer Mind now. And she has two, which she calls magic mixers that are happening this week. So tomorrow and Friday, I'll put that information in the show notes. If you want to hop on one of those, you do have to RSDP to one of them. It's not just for you to learn about the mixer mind. She's actually teaching you something. It's a panel. And the panel is about like where, like, what's what's working in 2026? Like, where's the money in 2026? How are you gonna be growing your business in 2026? And so uh there are gonna be several women on the panels, and the panels are different on each day. So you're gonna learn something. So I highly recommend if you are interested in learning about the mixer mind to hop in, preferably day one if you can, but if not day two, uh, because she is gonna be opening up the container for you know new members right after that. And you'll be able to apply for that right after that. So if you're interested in the mixer mind, that's your opportunity. I'll put that for you below. But in general, I highly recommend some time away. I I'm really excited and inspired about my business for the first time in a long time. And not only that, I feel more in my body for the first time in a really long time. I worked with an amazing woman who I'm absolutely gonna have on the podcast. So I'm not gonna go too deep into it right now, but her name is Ruth, and uh she's also, and uh yeah, it was probably one of the most powerful sessions I've ever had. She integrates body work with psychology. Like she has a degree in psych, and she also is a massage therapist. Like we both have that in common, both of those things. And um, she's extremely intuitive energetically, and she is a reflector in human design, which if you know anything about human design, that's powerful in and of itself. So she is incredible.

Introducing Guest Nada Salvatore

SPEAKER_02 14:22

And so we did a session together on the last day before I flew out, which was interesting because you know, I basically cried for an hour and released so much, so so much. And then I flew. I looked, I probably looked like I had been through the ringer probably on that flight. But it was so worth it. Um, it took me a couple of days to really sort of integrate like in my body and and really sort of like release what came up, but I was really ready for it. And I just feel so much more grounded than I have in years. And I'm really, really grateful for for her and for the entire experience. Okay, so let's talk about Nada Salvatore, who is my amazing guest today. So Nada and I recorded this before the retreat, but she was at the retreat as well. So she's been in a mixer mine with me this past year. I think it was her first year as well. She's also a photographer, but Nada is like probably, first of all, she's probably one of the most intelligent people I've ever met in person. And I didn't really like get to the depth of that until we were at the retreat. We had done collaborations before earlier in the year. Like we've collaborated on um a couple of AI things. We've been in, you know, various Zooms, but you know, that's just like a Zoom thing, right? Like, so how how deep can you really go with that? And I loved our conversation today because we're talking about this emotional side of delegation. Like delegation is her thing. And it's not just about handing off your tasks, but it's how to let go of control in a way that feels really aligned and intentional and actually supportive to your creativity and leadership. And so you're gonna love this conversation because Nara is amazing and she's got some really great insights. We're gonna dive into like why delegation triggers so much resistance, especially for women and creative entrepreneurs, and how control can silently sabotage your growth and what it really takes to shift from doing it all to leading, like a true CEO, one who's really grounded and inspired and not buried in admin work. Okay. So we're gonna get into all of that. But you guys, I have to tell you, um, we had dinner together. Nada and I just like usually on this retreat, like you're gonna have dinner with like five to 10 people at a time, right? Like pods of people, which is amazing. But Nada and I were the only two people at dinner this one particular night. And we sit down, it's at this restaurant, and I don't know why, but at this resort, they kind of just give you one menu and you're supposed to kind of share it. Um, so they handed it to me and I was looking at it and I realized, oh, you know, you don't have a menu, so let me share this with you. And she was like, Oh no, it's okay, I can read upside down. And I was like, really? She's like, Yeah, I can read and write upside down. I was like, excuse me, you can write upside down. And she's like, Yeah, I was supposed to be bored. So yeah. So that's the kind of person we're talking about here. Okay. So Nata owns several businesses. Okay. Photographer is just one of those. She's also a leadership coach. She's a former agency owner. She's a former physical therapy doctor. Like, she, you guys, this conversation I had with her, she basically kind of, you know, told me her life story. Uh, English is not her first language, by the way. She's Brazilian. So reading and writing upside down, yeah, not the first language. So hello. Um, but her life story should be a Netflix movie. And she is gonna write a book. So I don't I don't know when that's coming, but yeah, like you guys need to stay in touch with her and stay in her universe, follow her because you need to know more about her. She's fascinating. That's what I'm gonna say there. So, anyway, if you've ever said nobody can do it like I can, or you're just wearing busyness like a badge of honor. I've been guilty of that. This conversation that we're gonna about to dive into with Nada is your invitation to rethink what leadership really looks like. Okay. And how letting go might just be your next act of expansion. Hey, Nada, thanks so

Why Delegation Triggers Resistance

SPEAKER_02 18:39

much for being here today. I am very excited to talk about this topic because it's a big one in my industry and as well as yours. And so we're gonna dig into all the different pieces of delegation today. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Yes, I'm excited to be here in your space and be sharing this passion to make sure everybody understands what it means to delegate properly.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Yes, best. This is this is your zone of genius. So I really want to kind of pick your brain about a lot of different things today. So let's see how much we can get through in the short amount of time that we have. But I kind of want to start with the emotional uh like side of delegation, maybe even some triggers, right? So I know that a lot of us photographers, creatives, just you know, business owners in general. I hear a lot of resistance about delegation, quite a bit in my own coaching. So, why do you think delegation triggers so much resistance for heart-centered entrepreneurs, especially those who care really deeply about their clients and their craft?

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Yeah, that's a great question. Uh, so you talked about in the beginning, like it's it's coming in your industry, our industry, it is really everywhere, right? If you have ever owned a business and had to grow and realized you just had to stop doing it all yourself and you needed some help, you have gone through this. And it's not the sexiest topic out there, but it's the thing that everybody needs to understand and get more familiar with and get more comfortable and confident about doing it. So, which is why, you know, I created this whole platform to talk about it. And what I see very often, which is where you are alluding to, is this resistance to even getting started. And these are things that I've said it myself out loud to a coach, you know, there's no way nobody can do it as well as I can't. I can't delegate this part of things. This is just like what I understand the best, and all the other things that we hear all the time. And I think a lot of that it comes from the premise that is not just passing on tasks, is that an identity shift that needs to happen? And that's where the hard part of delegation is sitting. So, yes, anybody can make a list of things to pass on to somebody else. But what really needs to happen is for you to spend time understanding what it means to sit on that CEO seat and actually let go of those little tasks that are eating on your day, they're eating your time and your energy and everything. So it's that identity shift part that creates, I think, a lot of the resistance towards delegating. Does that sound right to you?

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Yeah, that's a big one. I'm so glad that you just went there with it because that's that's so true. And I don't think that a lot of people have really consciously put their finger on that. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I definitely hear some things about how, like you said, like I nobody can do it like I can. You know, it's gonna take too much time for me to train somebody. Like, there's all of these sort of like excuses that will pop up, but really at the heart of it, yeah, I think that that's a really big piece of it is this identity shift. And we tend to, I don't think we do it on purpose, right? Like, I don't think it's something that we consciously fall into, but we do like we take on this identity of like, well, I can do it, so why shouldn't I? And it is now a part of like who I am and what I do, and kind of wearing that busyness like a badge, basically. I see a lot of people doing, and I'm sure you do as

Control, Identity, And The Cost Of Busy

SPEAKER_02 22:25

well.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Yeah, absolutely. That's even I there's a really good quote from Elizabeth Gilbert that I cite very often is she says, You're afraid to surrender because you're afraid to lose control, but you never had control, all you had was anxiety. Oof.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

I know, yeah. I that's literally one of my favorites, too.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

And it's so good, and it's so true. You know, there's just this um, you know, in your head you're thinking, I'm gonna lose control, everything, things are gonna fall apart. And it's really not the case when you have good structures around it and a good system, and you do it from a place of evolving in your business and and personally, professionally, it it's a whole other ball game.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Yeah. Yeah. And it's really important to notice that and like dig into those pieces of it. Because it's really easy to just say, okay, well, what do you not, you know, want to do, or what are the things that you know you can hand off and just go ahead and do it? You know what I mean? Like it's really like we've all heard that for years, right? It's like just give it away. Like you don't need to do all that, just give it away. And it's like, okay, yes, in concept, that makes good business sense. That I get it, but like, why is it so freaking hard to let go? And he nailed it right there. It's like that control issue, right? Like, I mean, I am definitely a self-prescribed, self-admitted um control freak, right? I think a lot of us are, especially women. We've been sort of programmed to be this way. Um, so it's no, it's no mistake that we find ourselves in this position, I think, especially as solopreneurs. And, you know, we're like I said, we're like wearing that badge of honor, like, yeah, I can do it all. You know, I can bring home the bacon, blah, blah, blah. And I just feel like this collective shift. So I think that this of women like finally shedding that, hopefully. And, you know, I talk about that a lot, and I know you talk about that a lot, but I feel like this is a very timely conversation to have as a piece of that other conversation as well. Because if you don't deal with the reasons why you're holding on to it for your life, um, no amount of, you know, tips and tricks and here's the roadmap are it's gonna work if you're not willing to really look at these underlying reasons of why am I really holding on to this? And is it, do I really need to anymore? So if somebody's listening and they're going, uh-huh, uh-huh. That that's totally me. Um, what do you think is like one of the first mindset shifts or shifts that somebody needs to embrace before they can really begin to delegate in this way?

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yeah, I think a good one, besides the ones that we talked about a little bit already, uh, is this idea that it

The Math Of Opportunity Cost

SPEAKER_01 25:15

could it costs money to delegate, that you have to be making money in order to delegate. So I love debunking this one because once you put together, you know, the numbers and you really understand what it means and everything that it costs on the you know, visible and invisible side, uh not delegating, it becomes very clear to you that that needs to be a step that you take as you grow your business. So think about um this concept of opportunity cost. So this is like all the money that you are not making by spending your time in those little low-level tasks. So let's say that you have been a really good business owner, and at some point you calculated your cost of doing business, and you really get those numbers, and you know that your value as an employee to your business, how much it costs for you to provide a service is $200 an hour, let's say, right? And then you do a task audit and you realize that you are working about 10 hours a week on admin tasks that are repetitive, they're soul sucking and draining. And that's about $2,000 at the end of you know, a period of time that accumulates when you look at the whole year. We're talking six figures. It's over $100,000 in money that you are costing your business by spending your time doing those tasks when you could easily be delegating that to somebody that's costing you know anywhere between $15 to $25 an hour. I mean, that's a huge difference on how much your business is spending on that. I don't know about you, but I don't want that employee in my business. And a lot of times that's us, right? We're the ones costing that money to our business. So really have a good understanding of what is what it means to your business by you spending all that time on those tasks that don't need your time and your brain and your CEO skills, you know. So understand that cost and then start putting that time into things that are generating revenue for your business. There's so much professional development and and collaborations and you know, new ways to bring clients in that you could be doing if you were not answering emails and do your bookkeeping and you know, sending links to a Zoom meeting, you know, all those things. So start thinking about it in a different way. And it start looking at delegation as an investment into your business and not something that's costing you money.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

Yeah, that's a really important shift to make. And I find it's just so hard for people because, like you said, it's it's they don't they don't really look at it that way. So I'm glad that you you broke it down into the numbers of it as well, right? Because yes, it's again, it's like easy to tell someone that, but when they are doing that hard number, the hard numbers and are looking at it themselves, there's really no denying math. And there's there's a significant number, like he said, and it adds up, it adds up over time.

The Invisible Costs To Your Life

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Um, so that's a really important piece of it, you guys, like everybody who's listening. So I want you guys to commit to that. If you know that this is you and you feel like, okay, this is probably a step I need to take. That's like the first thing you need to be doing is adding up that time. And then also there's the other piece of it, which is the time that you are spending away from your life. Like, even if you're not a mother and you have kids, like a lot of us are, um, that's usually I find when people come to me, they're like, okay, I started this business because I was good at it, and now it's a business, and I have and now I have kids, and I'm not, I'm like, you know, staying up all night editing and I never see my family, especially this time of year. We're running into that. Like, and you're a fellow photographer, so you understand that whole vibe of like, oh, I'm just gonna work myself to death between September and December. You guys, that's not necessary and it's really not good. And you guys are wearing it like a badge of honor too. Like, oh, won't see my family for the next three months. That's not a flex that you think it is, right? And so I I really want to dig into that a little bit because most people come to me, by the time they come to me, that they've been in that for a minute.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

And they're like, I don't know how to get out, right? And I'm sure you have seen that a lot too, which is why you have become this delegation expert, because you know, you're good at it, but also I'm sure you see that a lot as well. And so how do you how do you quantify that piece of it, right? Like, okay, I'm not seeing my kids and not really. Seeing my family. What is the cost of that? Like on top of the monetary cost, you know, left unchecked, what's going to happen to your life, your well-being, your mental health?

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Yeah. I mean, we fall into this trap very often. And I've, again, I speak from experience. I've been there and I have gotten out of it. And now I help clients do that. So it's very, very common. You're not alone. It's a very common path to follow. And the thing is, unfortunately, we don't realize the cost of missing those, you know, sporting activities, missing time with your friends. Maybe you're missing birthday parties, dinners. Even if you don't have kids, there's so much that you could be missing. You know, vacations without guilt, uh, time with your partner. There's so much you could be missing. And unfortunately, you don't realize those things until it's too late. Most of the time, we just don't see it until you've lost a partner, until your kids are complaining and you know, pulling away from you. So there's so much that is this invisible cost of trying to do it all and caring it all. And then we on top of that is all the resentment that you build towards this business the business that you actually used to love, you know, and that you created to have all this freedom and this life. And then now it's just pulling all your energy and you know, you're resenting, you don't want this anymore. If you think five years from now, would you want to continue in this path? You know, where is this gonna lead? So I think it's a time, a good time to when you start feeling that you're like, okay, this is not things are not flowing anymore. Um, I do want to acknowledge there, I've I do believe there's a time for hustling in the beginning of your business. That's completely valid. And I think we've all gone through that phase, but the trick is don't stay on that phase. Like if eventually you need to evolve, things need to change, and you cannot continue to trade time for money because your time is limited. We have 24 hours in a day, and I don't care how efficient and good you

First Steps: What To Delegate Safely

SPEAKER_01 32:10

are, at the top of the hour, in 24 hours, it resets, and there's nothing you can do about it. So there's a limited amount of time there, so you cannot exchange your time for money. So, you know, take the time to really do a good self-check personally and in your business, because I truly believe you have to work on both. And, you know, what is it that you're missing? What is it that is feeling heavy for you that you can attribute to you just trying to do too much and trying to be everything for your business? And start making a plan of how can I understand the current state of my business and and understand what the steps I need to take to move to the next phase. And where is it that's bleeding into my personal life from all of that that then needs to change? So I invite you to take some time to actually do a good self-reflection of what is the current state of things, because if you don't understand that, then that next step is gonna be a lot harder.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

Yeah. No, because I think we get caught up in that. It's really easy to. I mean, I I've definitely been there as well. Um, and like also with like different parts of my business. Like, so sometimes you get to a place too where you're like, okay, I'm delegating, and you know, you you kind of get in the mix of it and then life happens, or like major things happen in your life, and you have to sort of maybe downscale again. Like, there's a lot of different things that can happen when you run your own business. And so you may find yourself there again and have to like kind of you know restart that process. I think that's just sort of the nature of being an entrepreneur, like depending on what kind of business you run. But what you said there is really important for people, I think, to hear is that you do have to notice that, right? Because like it's really easy to get stuck in that again. And then sooner than later, you're just sort of like hypnotically going through the motions again because it's like it's like, oh, this is just what I have to do. And then a few months down the road, you're not even just hearing the whispers of burnout, you're hearing like loud voices of burnout already. And maybe it's showing up in your health, it's showing up, it's gonna show up. Like it's definitely gonna show up. We are humans, we are not, we're not immortals, at least not yet. So, like we have to take care of ourselves. Like, like that is just a really big piece of this. You're not if your body and your mind are not running at top speed, right? Like, everything's gonna start to kind of like just fall off. So it's so important to like pay attention to those little different pieces and then just be intentional about okay, where what's this really about and and what's it really costing me, both emotionally, you know, like we just talked about with like relationships as well as financially. Um, and for some people, like the financial aspect is gonna be the main trigger that gets into do it. And for some people, it's it's gonna be that other thing, right? So you gotta know what's it gonna be for you to move that needle and to actually take a step. So for someone who maybe has never handed anything off yet, and they find themselves headed into, you know, this busy season, because we're recording this in September. It'll probably air sometime later uh in like October. But like this is it. This is like crunch time for a lot of businesses, just Q4 in general is like a busy time leading up to the holidays, but especially for a lot of my audience who are photographers, like we were talking about before, you know, for somebody who's never been able to hand anything off or or thought that they needed to, but now they're realizing that they do. Yeah. Um, what would you tell them? What would what what would feel strategic and a little safe, at least to get them started?

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Yeah, that's a great one. I think there's two ways to look at it. I think the easiest thing to see are things that you don't necessarily have the skill for and you just win it because, again, this is your business. And those are things like your accounting, you know, your bookkeeping. And some of the things that it was probably not a reason why you started a photography business or a coaching business. It was not to do bookkeeping, right? And and

SOPs With Loom And Small Experiments

SPEAKER_01 36:30

you might even have some, you know, affinity with numbers and and like all of that, but it's really not what you got a degree on, what you get some training on, and it's not how you make your money. So those are easy things to see and be like, okay, I need to pass this on. But then the next level I would say is pay attention for a week on what is something that you do repetitively, right? That is taking away some of your time and that would be an easy thing to delegate. And we're talking admin tasks. So maybe something related with your inbox management, maybe something that um it's just going on Canva and creating some content, you know, from to be posted online. So things that need the brain, they just don't need your brain. And then I'm not telling you to go out there and hire somebody full-time. Uh, you can easily, you know, record yourself doing one of those tasks, talk through the process, create a Loom video. Loom is a great resource for that, and then go onto one of those websites and hire a contractor for four hours just to try and see what it feels like to delegate something. And send that video, send some instructions. I mean, you can use AI to create SOPs for that. All of that stuff is super easy. Even Loom creates, you know, has a whole transcript and creates SOPs for you, and then delegate, experiment delegating that one task to somebody on a contracting basis and see what that looks like. You know, build the confidence slowly. Ask for some feedback, ask for some corrections on that SOP from that person, make it part of their the task for them to create and correct and give feedback as well. And then that's gonna help you start feeling confident and say, okay, this is something I feel like I can let go, and it will not take away from the quality of the business that people are receiving from me and and the whole like integrity of the business and all that, and it's gonna help you take that little baby step into the next thing.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Okay, yeah, there was a lot there. I actually had to take some notes because I'm gonna forget to bring out some of these things because that was a lot of really good information. Because first of all, like I remember I was so resistant, I gotta tell you. Like, I I mean, even when it just came to, I think the first thing, the first thing I automated years ago was my editing. And for a photographer, that can be like we have way more tools now, and we have AI tools now, and there's a whole bunch of different things, right? Yeah, but when I was doing this, it was a long time ago, and it was like, okay, I to I had to find someone who could do what I do. Yeah.

AI As Part Of Your Team

SPEAKER_02 39:05

And there was that whole like lie that you tell yourself, no one can do it like I can, you know. And yes, I'm not I'm not saying you're not a great photographer and a great editor. Like, I totally understand that. But even if you have a very specific process, it's a hundred percent possible to train someone else. It just has to be the right person, obviously. And I remember, you know, one of the things that I always tell my my coaching clients too um when we're talking about handing things off like this, and like, even if you're not ready to do it right now, like even if you, you know, it's on your radar and you know it needs to be done, but the thing that's kind of holding you up is that you don't have time to train people. What you said there about using Loom is 100% like what you guys need to be doing. Just start doing it now though. Like record yourself doing the things as you're doing them. It's super easy to do. Like, even if you're not like hiring someone this month, like just start recording your stuff, whether it's like going into your CRM and like record, like creating products, recording things, creating templates, uh, editing your photos, whatever it is, you can be recording that entire stuff. If it's done on a computer, you can use Loom or you can even use Zoom or whatever is easy for you to do. Um, and just do it, just record it. You don't have to do anything with that right now. Just put it in a Dropbox folder or Google Drive folder. And then you won't have that excuse anymore. When you know it's time to hire somebody, you can't use the excuse of, well, I don't have time to train them because you've created these videos that are going to do a lot of that work for you. So that's a really good piece of information. And I will say that once I did that one thing, it's kind of like getting a tattoo. It's like addicted. It's like, what else can I give away? Oh my gosh, like, what else can I give away? And so then I wanted to ask you, because you are very much into AI like I am. And we've collaborated on a couple of different things before. I know that we're both collaborating on um her AI summit right now. So you work with a lot of AI systems as well. So I want to kind of dig into that just for a second, because like you said, you don't have to go out there and hire a full-time person. Maybe that also looks like digging into a little bit of AI. What are some of your favorite ways or some of the favorite systems and things like that that you ease people into with AI?

SPEAKER_01 41:30

Absolutely. Yeah, I definitely count AI as part of my team. So I have people and I have bots. And uh I use it for a lot of different things. And I think, you know, a lot of people use it to a superficial level, and I think that's fine to a certain degree. But when you really start thinking about that control piece, right? I want to make sure I don't lose the voice of my business and make sure that people don't feel like they're talking to a pod. They're actually feel like they're still talking to me. I think the secret there is understanding how to customize uh a GPT, right? How to build a custom GPT. And I use it for things like um creating sales pages when I have new offers. I use it for my email marketing campaigns. I use it for my podcast to create all the assets for the podcast. Um, I have I use it to summarize uh coaching sessions that I have with my clients to make sure we have a nice tied-up to-do list with some highlights of what we went over in the call. I mean, there's so many different things you can use, captions for social media, uh, a lot of things that again used to take a long time. Um, now it can be done with a very solid, you know, custom GPT. And I think if you take the time to really structure and build things based on a brand book, right? So what your brand looks like, sounds like, feels like, um, then the outcome that you get is very helpful. And the truth is, I mean, it's here to stay, guys. We you can't fight it, it's not going anywhere. So the best thing you can do as a business owner is learning how to use it to your advantage and use it well. So as things continue to evolve, you can keep up with how things are going. So it's is delegation in 2025. It's learning how to use that as part of your team.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Yeah, and like if you have physical team members, they also need to be using AI in the way that you use it so that you're even more efficient. Like, you know, I mean,

What To Do With Newfound Time

SPEAKER_02 43:35

honestly, like I I I love I love TI2BT. Like it has definitely helped me so much. Um, I I I like you, use it for all of those, all those things as well. And it helps greatly. But at the same time, too, um, and like you said, it's not going anywhere. Like, honestly, like, you know, is we we I don't want to get too deep in the the the weeds of AI here because I've done other episodes about that specifically, but you know, it's true. It's the the genie's out of the bottle, it's not gonna get put back in if and it's actually going to move at a very, very fast rate in the next like two to three years specifically. Absolutely. And it's gonna change the way a lot of people do business, it's gonna change a lot of different things. And so even you know, even if you are a little resistant to it, I just uh would encourage you to at least learn about it because you you you need to know. You need to know. And also, just as a little side note, I always say this, but I feel like I need to continue saying it. Those of you parents of little kids, like they will never be in a world that doesn't hate have AI. So you need to know so that you can know what they know and know how they're using it, because um, yeah, there's a lot going on out there. So, anyway, that's just my little side note about that. Um, so I'm glad that you know you brought that up. And it's it's a part of the strategy. Like you can decide however you want to use it, you know, essentially. But I know that um that's part of what you do. So I wanted to make sure we kind of like touched on that because some business owners are like, yeah, show me how to do all these things, you know? And it makes a huge difference. I mean, I'm sure you have so many case studies that that we could go through. Um, I had a client last week who was like, we created a custom GPT for her. That basically she's like, okay, but now, now what I what do I do? What do I do? Literally, I literally just created my whole month of content and it took me three hours and everything is scheduled. What do I do now? Like you get in that, like I said before, you get in that like fight or flight, like busy, busy, busy mode. And when you start taking things off your plate, whether it's with it with AI or a person or both, you're like, wait, now what? And so let's kind of talk about that for a second. Yeah. Because I think that that is a very unexpected side effect that people don't realize is going to happen until it happens. They're like, Well, now what do I do with my time? Okay, well, we talked about it before a little bit. What's moving your business? So, how have you seen your clients really be able to show up more in their business and or their lives because they're delegating and some of the strategies that you've given them?

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Yeah, that happens very often, you know, all this time now you have in your hands and you're like, what do I do with this? Like, I haven't I haven't had this before. So uh that's when you're gonna dive into what I call your high level activities, your either revenue generating or professional personal development, you know, and in and in life, right? To get this, get some back to your life. So um understanding what that means. So when is the last time that you actually took time to learn and

Woo Practices And Self-Reflection

SPEAKER_01 47:00

perfect that skill that actually, you know, took you to start this business to begin with? You know, if it's photography, when was the last time you actually got into learning higher level skills in photography and what it means to be editing in a new program and all the stuff that's out there with AI now? You know, you took the time to catch up on that. When was the last time that you actually attended a networking event in person to connect with people again and talk about your business? When was the last time that you pitched a collaboration with somebody else that would bring you clients over and over and over again? You know, that's all revenue generating stuff that needs your time and expertise and energy as a CEO that you do not have if you're answering emails and doing all those low-level tasks. Uh, you know, learning in general. I I um implemented a learning half a day once I start having more free time. So Thursday mornings are my day to learn new things. So maybe it's a podcast episode that I haven't had time to listen to. Maybe it's a book that I want to read, maybe it's a webinar that I want to watch, maybe is you know, there are things related that maybe it's a long email that somebody sent you that you know that has some value, but you just didn't have the time to read when it first came across your inbox. So I keep a list of like things that I want to look at on Thursday mornings. Maybe it's a program that somebody mentioned or in, you know, a talk or a podcast or a conversation, they're like, Oh, that sounds cool. Let me go look into what that is. And so that's what goes on my Thursday morning list. So I kind of brought learning back into my life, which didn't have space for that before. That's one of the first things that get cut from your list once you're too busy.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

So working on all of that, and then obviously take time for your family and friends and for yourself, you know, whatever that means to you, that self-care means to you, and whatever that, you know, renew of your energy. Um, you know, whatever that takes for you, just take the time to go do that. You know, let's do some planning and start ideating for your business. When we're so busy, we don't have time to dream where we want to go. What is things gonna look like? And you know, CEOs that are too busy cannot see around the corners, you know, you just can't see far ahead.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

That's so true. It's so true. It's just so interesting. You get stuck in that for for long enough, you know, it just starts to become just the way it is, and it gets a little it even harder to sort of like break out of that. But those are I love that you do that on Thursday mornings. That's such a great practice. That's like a really great little tip too. And honestly, like if it's scheduled, it'll happen, right? Like so many people talk about doing it, but like put it on your calendar and and and make sure that you are intentional about it. That's a really big piece of it. So um, I do have a little follow-up question to that, just because it's kind of on the same topic. Before we start talking a little bit more about your method that you've created, because like like I said, this is your zone of genius. You even have like a whole program for people walking them through this.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:12

We'll get to that in a second. But um, on this line of, you know, I usually ask yes, like, because it's tried and true with a dash of woo.

The CEO Delegation Method

SPEAKER_02 50:20

I usually will ask people like, okay, yes, last we'll talk about strategies. We would talk about strategies. Okay, but what is like your, what is your woo-woo sort of like me time practice? And I think that what you just said is probably a big piece of that for you is that you're taking intentional time to learn something new. Do you have anything else that you do that you would be considered a little, you know, a little woo, a little dreamy, a little, you know, big picture?

SPEAKER_01 50:47

Yeah, I do have a couple of things I love. Um, I guess just the taking the time to actually think about things that we don't think all the time. So, which might not sound as woo-woo, but whenever you're busy, head down on a day-to-day, you know, it's just not is not on your list, is off your radar. So, you know, there's a few things that I like to make sure that I'm always, you know, creating that time to be intentional with both my family, but also some stuff on my business that I'm reaching out to to friends, and I'm like, I'm very kind to myself and talking whenever I'm like, you know, I keep those upper limits kind of in check. Am I am I starting to self-sabotage because I don't believe I can go there? So there's some affirmations around that and things like that I try to follow. Um, and just be aware of the surroundings a little bit more and be a little bit more quiet than talkative. So we're listening more than talking, and and just you know, help yourself be more open to what is around you. I think is a little bit of my woo-woo.

SPEAKER_02 51:47

I love it. That's awesome. Do you know your um your human design?

SPEAKER_01 51:52

It is, I believe it's generator. I know I'm terrible with human design. No, it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:57

I I just always like to ask if people know it because I find it interesting. You know, it's something that I use in my coaching. I'm not like tied in it, but I really, really dig it. I'm really into it. So I always really like to ask. You definitely have generator vibes, I will say that. Um, so that would make sense. Yeah, I know I'm on Enneagram eight.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

I'm um, I think I'm a generator. I'm learning to pay more attention to that stuff. I've always struggled with things like that because I have a hard time fitting into boxes. Um because I find myself like fluctuating and be very adaptable. So if you put me in the room full of like very introverted people, I can be very quiet and you know, introverted. But if you put me in a room with people that are very loud and I can I can go that way too. So I can kind of shift. Uh so I find a hard time sometimes like finding a box to fit, but obviously the older I get, the more things get shape up. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

No, it's true. Yeah, I'm I'm very similar. And I think that that has a lot to do. Um, I've thought about that a lot over the years, just as a little side note, you know, like adaptable, being being very adaptable to the environment. Um, and I do think that it's a skill that has really come in handy as a photographer, I will say, right? Because you've probably seen that too. Like I always tell people, you know, yes, you have to be good at what you do, but it's a people job. And, you know, especially if you're weddings and portraits is what mainly what I'm talking about here. Like you gotta really be able to like create almost like instant rapport, get people super comfortable. And I think that, you know, I think I was probably always like that, but I got like it that part of me developed a lot more. I think as I became because I've been doing photography for so long, but as I I became a better photographer and like just did it for so long, it's like second nature to me now to like just instantly get people to feel comfortable. I would love

Where To Connect With Nada

SPEAKER_02 54:00

to do like a little side study on that. I find that super fascinating for wedding photographers, and like if we all sort of like have that chameleon energy of like, oh, I'm just gonna like become this person right now. Like, and it's not conscious, it just happened.

SPEAKER_01 54:15

Yeah, I think it's like you said, it's like you have to be good at your job, and we're not talking about taking photos. Yeah, because that's not what the job is at all. Exactly, except the smaller part of the job. I think you find there's a very large percentage of people that are like that that have to work, which you know, and that's what I had to do in my previous life too. So I think that's one of the skills that I definitely carried over and and then carried over to coaching as well. You know, you have to be able to adapt and and work with different people. Um, but that comes from your own self-development for sure.

SPEAKER_02 54:51

Yes, yes, that's a big piece of it. And yeah, I know like like myself, you have also been doing that for a long, long time, and that's a really big piece of it. So thanks for bringing that one up because yes, that is that is part of it. So your CEO delegation method, first of all, I want to talk about, you know, sort of like what what it is and and how it will help people specifically. But what made you want to create this program in the first place, too?

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Yeah, um, it's it's basically the A to Z from understanding how to utilize delegation as a sustainable growth strategy. So for those people that like me and like many of my clients, at some point realize that, you know, you you work harder, you make more money. You work harder and you make more money, but there will be a time where that work harder hits a ceiling, but you wanted to still make more money. You want this thing still want to grow. Like, where do you go from there? So I realized as you know, as I went through my coaching is that a lot of people understand that they have to do it, they just don't know how to do it or where to start, or they need that shift in identity to start, right? So the reason why I created the program is to help people pass that and and start wearing that CEO hat that we all want to wear, but then give them a roadmap to do that. So, what is different, I

Host’s Takeaways And Weekly Challenge

SPEAKER_01 56:20

believe, around about the course is the fact that it does put a big emphasis, especially in the first module right off the bat, on the mindset shifts that need to happen. Because you can apply all the strategies I give you, but if you don't take the time to work on the mindset shifts that need to happen, it's very likely the outcome is not gonna be good. So I think that is the you know, the chef's kiss on the course is that mindset, you know, um, addressing the mindset shifts that need to happen. And then we talk about the what to delegate, understanding what tasks and then the how to delegate, what is that gonna look like, what needs to be um kept, what needs to be delegated, automated, or eliminated, and who to hire and how to train them, and then building the systems and the processes to support that, and then how to understand, how to, you know, change it and continue to evolve as delegation progresses from delegation of tasks to delegation of results to delegation of leadership and all the kinds of things that need to happen as you grow. So it's a pretty comprehensive course to help you take that next step and continue to scale without sacrificing your sanity.

SPEAKER_02 57:39

That's awesome. And so this is people that people can walk through this on their own, correct?

SPEAKER_01 57:44

Like self-paced. Yeah, we have six modules, self-paced, and that comes with a one-on-one uh meeting with me. So, you know, at the end of the day, after you go through everything, we actually meet and I help make sure that you understand how to implement things to the particular ins and outs of your business. Because we all have a little bit different, you know, business running, even if it's the same kind of business, we run things differently. So I help you make sure that you implement everything in a way that makes sense for your business.

SPEAKER_02 58:12

That's a really big piece of it because everybody's business, you know, looks a little different. So um, and that's the beauty too of just one-on-one coaching, which I know you know you do and and I love. Like there's a piece of me that will always love one-on-one coaching because of that. So I love that that's also a part of it that people can actually have that one-on-one time with you to really customize it for them. Because sometimes it can be hard to kind of conceptualize that stuff on your own, especially if you're swimming in burnout, you know, and you're already like neck deep and things. It really does help to have someone just sort of like pull you up from that and be like, okay, here's the 30,000-foot view, and this is where you need to start. And so that's fantastic. Um, I will definitely put that link for you guys in the show notes so you guys can go check out the course. Um, but yeah, where do you want to connect with people? Like I know that you're pretty active on

Mixer Mind Info And Coaching Offers

SPEAKER_02 59:10

Instagram. So is that a good place to send people to if they want to chat with you?

SPEAKER_01 59:13

Yeah, that's perfect. You can find me at accidentalceo.co. Uh, I'm still the one answering all my DMs uh because I want to keep those conversations private and safe for everybody. Uh and you can also join my free Facebook group. It's called Accidental CEO Collective. Uh, I go live once a week there and share some strategies. And, you know, I'm always cheering people on and creating a safe space for everybody to kind of grow together. Uh, so love to connect in those two places.

SPEAKER_02 59:43

That's awesome. And you have a podcast as well. The Accident.

SPEAKER_01 59:46

I do. It's called Accidental CEO, and you can find all the great strategies there. And we'll have Renee there too, very soon.

SPEAKER_02 59:53

Yay. Awesome. Okay. Well, thanks so much. You know, I I love this conversation and especially the The heart-centered piece of it because you and I are so much on the same page when it comes to that and just our coaching in general. But I I feel like it's just a really big piece of the delegation because it it does you need to some you need a little bit of guidance sometimes, you know, to actually pull the trigger and get it done. And I hope that um I hope that anyone who's listening who has been a little resistant or feels triggered by it, maybe now it's not so bad. Maybe now it's a little less triggering for you. So that was the intent. There you go. This is your sign. We're here for you. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. Okay. Told you. She's pretty awesome. So let's wrap this episode up with just a few takeaways that I really want you to sit with after this conversation. Okay. The first one is delegation is not about losing control, it's about reclaiming your energy. Every task that you hand off creates more space for you to lead and dream and create. Second one, busyness is not a badge of honor. If you started your business for freedom and fulfillment, but now you're chained to every single little detail, then it's really time to check your identity as the do-it-all person. Okay. And start redefining what success looks like for you. The third one, delegation is both emotional and strategic. The mindset shift that has to come before the action, right? So until you deal with why you're holding on so tightly, no strategy is gonna really stick. And you guys who coach with me know this is this is a lot of what we do in my coaching. And then finally, AI and systems can be part of your team as well. So whether it's hiring a VA, outsourcing your editing, creating your own custom GPT like I do and like I've made for you guys, support looks different for everyone. But it always starts with the decision to stop carrying it all yourself. So here's my challenge to you this week pick one small thing that you can hand off. Just one small thing that you can just hand off, automate or delete. Notice how it feels in your body and let that feeling be your proof that you can trust yourself to lead differently. Okay, I'm gonna put all the links for you guys that you need in the show notes, including how to stay in touch with Nana, because she's like I said in the beginning, she's amazing. So you definitely want to stay in her universe and as well as the links to the magic mixers for the mixer mine that I was telling you about. If you're interested in joining us in that, you need your RSDP to one like today, because those are happening tomorrow and Friday. And if you have any questions about what the mixer mine is, just hit me up on Instagram. I'm happy to answer some questions about whether it's right for you or not. Um, so hit me up there. And just a reminder as well, I don't do these very often, but I'm doing 90-minute one-on-one calls in November and December because there's a lot of you guys who are really needing more support. Okay. And maybe a coaching container isn't just not right for you or it's inaccessible for you right now. I am signing up 2026 six-month containers, three-month and six-month containers right now as well. So the link to book a call for those is below. Like we have to chat before you sign up for that because it is a commitment and don't work with everybody. Like it's gotta feel right for both of us, obviously. What I do is really different than a lot of coaches. I'm not just gonna teach you like what worked for me. We're gonna dig into your business, we're gonna talk about strategy, but I work with human design. Um, I work with your astrology, I work with a lot of self-awareness tools, and we alchemize all of those so that it works for you and how you want your business and your life to look and feel. That's the thing. I want this to be integrated into your body. I was a massage therapist. I'm really big on this mind-body connection. So I might not be the right coach for you. You might not be into that. That's totally fine. Um, I like to call myself a modern mystic. Like, I'm gonna help you in all the different areas of your life because it's not just about strategy. I can teach you all the things, but like if you don't integrate them and sort of like let go of some stuff, make some room, do some unconscious reprogramming, it's not gonna stick. Might stick for like a month or two, but it's not gonna stick long term. And I don't want you to need me forever. That's the thing. I want you to be able to learn and transform and transmute this energy into something incredible for you and your business. So that we have to book a call for. That link is below. It's the renee.io slash book a call. And then if you you need help, like right now, before 2026, if you want to just kind of like hit on pricing or a new strategy or a new funnel or whatever that is, or maybe you just need some heart-centered support where

Closing Notes And Ratings CTA

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

you can let go and you can really start to like dig into some of those old patterns, these unconscious patterns that you know are running on repeat and you want to break it. This is a great opportunity for you to grab a 90-minute one-on-one with me. That link is below. You we don't need to talk prior to that. You can just schedule it, it'll show up on my calendar and we will meet. And that also includes a follow-up email. Like where I'm gonna go ahead and like give you an action plan, like a very detailed action plan based on what we talk about. Um, and then you do also get discounts on Voxer coaching if you want to continue going back and forth a little bit about that over Voxer. So that's an option as well. Um, but yeah, there's only a few spots for those 90-minute one-on-ones. So if if that speaks to you, go ahead and grab one. But I just want you guys feeling really calm and focused, centered and excited for 2026. We are in a very tumultuous, energetic time. That's not gonna change anytime soon. Just so you guys know. Now through definitely through 2027 and even into almost 2030, it's gonna be a lot. It's gonna feel, it's gonna feel like a lot. Okay. You gotta be the one centering yourself. You've got to be the one finding your own foundation and creating that sense of peace for yourself. And I'd love to help you do that if that speaks to you. So that's all for now. You guys have a great rest of your week. If you need me, you know where to find me at Renee Bowen over on Instagram. And I'd love to hear what you think about this episode. As always, you can rate this episode too at ratethispodcast.com slash Renee Bowen. And you guys just go out there and do something awesome. Be good to yourself this week, okay? Love you. Bye.