SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to Tried and True with a Dash of Woo, where we blend rock solid tips with a little bit of magic. I'm Renee Bowen, your host, life and business coach, and professional photographer. At your service, we are all about getting creative, diving in your business, and playing with manifestation over here. So are you ready to get inspired and have some fun? Let's dive in. Hey, hey, welcome back to Tried and True with a Dash of Woo. I'm your host, Renee Bowen, and this week's episode is going to be a little bit different. So not only do I have one guest, I have several guests, but I'm doing it in a pretty non-traditional way because it was really hard to wrangle as many people as I wanted to include in this conversation. So I basically sent some questions to some of the senior photographers who I work with inside of Elevate because a lot of us are seeing different things, right? Like we're all in different parts of the country, but there's a very big conversation going on right now around what's next for our industry, what's coming. We have so many things changing and shifting. We have AI, our teen clients are changing. Again, we're moving really into Gen Alpha. I've been talking a lot about that in the last several months. And as a senior photographer and as an educator in this industry, I really want to make sure that I'm highlighting other voices as well. Because, you know, I'm not the und all be all, right? I'm in Southern California. And so I do tend to see trends and things like that happen earlier. But, you know, that may or may not be relevant for you wherever you are. And so I wanted to have this dialogue with some other senior photographers who are working, who are doing really well, but they run their businesses, you know, in different parts of the country. And so I had a set of questions that I really wanted to cover and go deeper into. So you're gonna hear four to five different voices answer these questions. And some answered all of them, some just popped in for a few. But I think it's gonna make for a really fun and different listening experience for you today. And it is only audio. We're not doing a video for this week's episode. Uh, so you can listen to this obviously wherever you listen to podcasts. And basically, I'm just gonna pop in, I'm gonna say the question, and then each person is going to sort of like answer it in their own way. And then I'm gonna pop back in and sort of tie it all together. So I think it's gonna be really fun. And I really think that, you know, if you're a senior photographer or if you want to be a senior photographer, this is gonna be a really important, you know, great conversation for you to listen to. I would love to continue this conversation with you as well. So head over to the DMs and my Instagram at Renee Bowen if you have any questions or if anything stood out for you. I would absolutely love to hear from you. And of course, share this with a friend who you think would also benefit from all of this amazing insight that we are about to dig into. But really quickly, before we do that, I just want to mention that it's December, it's early December, right? So we're heading into the holidays. And I know this is downtime for a lot of us, photographers, creatives. Um, again, if you even if you're not a senior photographer, this conversation we're having today could be super insightful for you just across the board because we are talking about, you know, a lot of different trends that we're seeing. So this could be relevant for you no matter what kind of business you're running. But aside from that, this is also the time of year heading into January. There's a couple of things that I want to highlight that I have going on that could also be super beneficial to you as well. So the first thing is that next week on December 10th, I'm gonna be hosting a live workshop. And it's not your typical end-of-year planning or goal setting for the next year workshop. We are gonna do a bit of that because I really do think that it's important to get some clarity before we clock out at the end of the year. And this year in particular, because we are moving out of a nine-year in numerology. So in numerology, you know, it goes up to nine and then it restarts the cycle. And so this is a nine year. It's also the year of the snake in Chinese astrology, and we're moving from that to the year of the horse and also a nine-year to a one-year. And so that can be really, really impactful because it means that we're shedding old cycles, we're leaving what no longer serves us behind in 2025. And unless we're doing that intentionally, we might feel like we are scattered and not super focused heading into 2026. And so I'd really love to have you join me on December 10th. If you are feeling any sort of stuckness or confusion or just like generally, you know, meh, like not feeling it, like not really feeling in your body, feeling um any sort of clarity on kind of where you want to go, because that's exactly what we're gonna be doing in this workshop. But we're gonna be doing a few different things. Okay. So, first of all, I'm calling this workshop unavoidable because I want you to set yourself up so that the future vision of your life is unavoidable. Okay, we're gonna make this so easy for you to implement. Okay, we're not gonna just get clarity on things. We're going to actually create some tools that are gonna help you uh move through this and actually embody this vision, this version of you, right? So we are gonna look back on 2025. That's the first thing we're gonna do because it's really important for us to take stock. What worked, what didn't work, what do I want to continue doing? What am I no longer available for, basically? And so that's gonna be a piece of it. Then we're gonna go ahead and project. Really, five years out, right? I'm gonna give you the tools and the framework to really go there and really get curious about what it is you truly wanna do. Okay, and we're gonna take this step by step and I'm gonna guide us through it, which I think really is important that you join us live. However, you can also just sign up and get the replay and do this on your own. That totally works as well. So we're gonna do that. We're also going to create this five-year vision. Then we're gonna kind of break it down to like, okay, then just 2026. What do we really want to map out for that? And then the first 90 days and action plan so that you really start 2026 knowing what you're gonna be doing, and we're gonna create some tools to help you along the way. We're going to not just do like a vision board, we're gonna do a vision movie because that's way more impactful than just looking at something static, a static image. That's helpful, and we can definitely go into that. There's gonna be a little uh Canva template for you to do this for your iPhone screen, because I really am very big on planting those seeds in our unconscious mind daily. So you're gonna get that. We're also gonna create that movie, which is gonna be actually really, really fun as well. Um, but you get to design this, okay? And so we're gonna take it step by step, piece by piece, so that by the end of this workshop, you are going to feel so much more grounded. And this is all very nervous system friendly because I know that we are all frazzled, we are all done, we don't want one more thing to do at the end of the year. And so this is gonna be wrapped in sort of like a very calming ritual vibe. Okay, like this is a gift to yourself right before the holidays. And so I want you to go ahead and join us if that feels aligned for you. The link is below. Go ahead and do that because it's on December 10th. If you want to join us live, you are going to still be able to purchase this through the end of December at the same price, but then in January, the price is going to jump. So if you know you want to do it, let's say the first week of January, go ahead and purchase it now because the price is going to increase. The other thing I'm gonna talk to you guys about at the end of this episode, but I'm gonna mention it really quickly is that I am signing up my next semester of Elevate. This is my six-month container for high vibe, visionary, creative female photographers. Okay, so you don't have to be a senior photographer, a lot of us are, but some other photographers in the group are branding, headshots, some do events, families. And so you don't have to just specifically do one niche of photography. However, it is only for female photographers. And it's not a great fit if you are a newbie. Okay. Like if you are a new photographer and you're looking for a roadmap and guidance in that way, that is coaching with me. That is my level up program. We can talk about that. I'll put the links below. But you definitely can book a call with me in December if you are thinking of adding one-on-one coaching to your education roster in 2026, because I am signing up one-on-one clients right now for 2026. So I'll put that link below too. That's always in the show notes. Just book a call with me because we do have to chat for that. But for Elevate, all you need to do is just apply. So I'm gonna link the page below. The page really goes into all the details about what it is and who it's for. So go ahead and read that. And then when you click apply, it'll bring you to a form. And then I'll reach out from there and let you know if I feel like it would be a good fit. And maybe we need to hop on a call or something like that. But if you are a female photographer and you are seeking really a beautiful community, because the women in this group, most of them have been with me for years, and we have such good vibes on our calls in this group. It's so supportive. You get a lot of marketing, obviously, because marketing is like my love language. So we talk a lot about marketing in a lot of different ways. We are diving deep into AI right now, and I'm that's where I'm doing a lot of my AI education because it is ongoing and non-stop, just like social media marketing. So that's this is the place where I like to dive into all of that because it's more up to date and current. And it's very, very heavy on mindset, unconscious reprogramming. You do get a one-on-one call with me included during your six months in Elevate, and that you can schedule at any time during that six months that you are a member. So you do get some one-on-one support, but you get some very focused and individualized group support as well. We have two calls a month, and then we have ongoing support and a Voxer thread. And so that's like just basically having a coach in your pocket. At any time, you can reach out with whatever you need, and I will pop in within 24 hours and answer you. So it's kind of unheard of at this price to get this level of support, but I love keeping it accessible and I'm just very protective of the energy of this group. So I want to make sure it's a good fit for you and a good fit for us. But if this feels like something you want to be a part of, I would love to have you apply. So go ahead and click the link and do that. And uh I hope to see you in Elevate as well in January. Okay, so let's get into today's episode. As I said, I am going to pop in with what the question is that I asked everyone. And then each person is going to say a little bit about what their answer is and give some context behind it. You're gonna hear from Stacey Dominici, she is SL Boutique Photography, and she is in Pennsylvania. You're gonna hear from Kelly Heights, she's in Florida. You're gonna hear from Tracy Caffrey and she's in Minnesota. And you're gonna also hear from Linda Soboluski, and she is out of Connecticut. They're all amazing. They're all in Elevate. I've been working with them for a while, some of them one-on-one first, and then inside of Elevate as well. And so they really understand uh not just, you know, what we need to be doing as senior photographers, but because they've been in my coaching container for a while, they're pretty well versed also in like the way that I coach and the way that I uh speak to you guys and my community. So it's super aligned. And you can read more about them on my blog. I've linked out to each of their businesses so you guys can go and find out more about them. And they're also linked here in the show notes. Okay, here we go. First question that I asked these amazing photographers is what are some of the biggest shifts or trends that you've noticed in the high school senior photography world over the past year or two?

SPEAKER_01: 12:54

I'm definitely seeing seniors want something that feels more like them and less like the perfectly posed, overly styled shoots that we used to see. Seniors want to look like they're moving around and candid moments, emotional connection. They kind of want to look like they're in a magazine, but they also want to look very natural. They want natural edits, they want clean edits, nothing too heavy. Um, noticing that seniors want more variety without doing a big production. They want multiple outfits, they want multiple locations, but they want it to feel simple, they want it to look like you're just having fun. And honestly, the parents love that too.

SPEAKER_02: 13:31

Um, a couple different things. First, I feel like, I mean, obviously, we've talked about the fact that they're, you know, they're wanting everything to look more like them, which I hope leads away from AI because they want to feel like the pictures really represent who they are. But I'm also noticing that they don't really care about seeing your photos and not necessarily in a good or bad way. It's just they feel like it's not necessarily that rite of passage anymore. The parents were wanting it. And I've noticed that now the parents are more leaning into whatever the kids say they want. So if the kids don't want it, then the parents don't want it. Um, and I I've noticed that I've also noticed that there's no follow-through. You know, I think they're really struggling with how to do the steps that go along with it. And I'm wondering if a lot of this is coming from COVID, where, you know, they weren't in classes, they were at home, and so they get really overwhelmed when they have to do things. And I I found that this started in 2022. It was a little bit better in 2023, which was the last class that I think really had some of their freshman year. And then, you know, I really started to see a decrease in any type of prep work, even on the parent side, which was a little bit crazy. I also feel like I've seen a lot this year of both the parents and the seniors just kind of going along with it, not necessarily being excited about it. You know, so I'd love to see a little bit more excitement. I'd love to see some positivity put back into it. I'd love to see a focus on, I think, the outcome of them. Um, you know, I think social media plays a huge part in this. They don't want to feel like they're overrepresenting themselves. But I just think it's a shame, you know, when they look back and they don't really have photos of who they were and selfies just are not the same. I've learned that being out of town and taking my camera and not taking my professional camera, just taking my cell phone. It is not the same. The other funny thing, and we've talked about this before too, is that there's this huge push against professional photos. Um, and I think that comes from portrait remote on a camera because it's fake, it's AI. So they don't want to have um image blur. And it was funny, I was actually working with my nephew who's trying to learn how to use a camera, and we were talking about depth of field and the shallowness or the you know, a deeper depth of field and what the focus becomes when there's a deep depth, you know, a deep depth of field, meaning everything's in focus. And he was like, well, then nothing's really in focus. You're not focused on anything. And it was great that he could see that he's 15 and but he's learning about a camera. And I think that was one of the other great things I was talking to him about is that he was able to see what the human eye can see versus what the camera can see. And I think that's a bit of a challenge for people too. They they struggle with why can't we get the background and the foreground if you know one is in shade and um and things like that. So I've seen a little bit of that. When I started, I really enjoyed doing a lot of what I did with weddings. I like to make dramatic lighting and all that kind of stuff. And I'm seeing less of a push for that until they get into the moment and then they really want it. So I think, you know, that's part of it is just really being able to show people what the results are and how you can have them. You know, I'm a big believer, and I made a TikTok on this that I think senior portraits are are a bigger deal than wedding photos. And I'm a retired wedding photographer. I just think, you know, wedding really isn't about you or even really about your spouse. It's about your family, and there's so much going on. And um, and I just think that senior moment is where they really get to focus on what they're going to become and where they want to go, even though it'll change a thousand times in their lifetime and it'll definitely change when they're in college. I just think it's really great when you get to focus in on that. And I'm feeling like so much of that has been pushed away. And I don't feel like you know, seniors get that moment.

SPEAKER_04: 17:06

I would say that I run a luxury high school senior photography business. And even among my luxury clients, I've noticed that they're spending less overall than in years past. With the state of the economy, everyone's being more selective with what they choose to spend their money on. And then in addition to that, supplier and vendor costs have increased. So my overall revenue and profit margins have decreased um this year versus years prior.

SPEAKER_00: 17:37

Okay, so those were all really great. I think that, you know, a lot of us can identify with everything, all three of them said. You know, again, I think that some of this is regional. And I think that it also depends on, you know, the kind of business that we run, where we're located, all that kind of stuff. You know, every everything like that will come into play. Uh, but for myself, I'll chime in to a lot of the things that I have seen. I haven't really seen it being uh not a thing necessarily in the same way, I think, as Kelly was talking about. But I think that's because where I'm located, it it never really was a thing. Like, so you know, I I created this business in 2007, 2008. Nobody, nobody was doing senior portraits like at all. Like it wasn't a thing. They would just go do their contracted yearbook stuff, and that was it. And so I don't really feel like I don't know, maybe it's my own mindset because I've always sort of felt like I had to make it a thing and create it and like embed the importance of it into everything that I do. Um, because people literally in the beginning, they were like, What are you doing? Like, what do you mean you're taking these girls out for like it looks like they're shooting on a magazine, you know, all this kind of stuff, right? And I was like, Yeah, that's the point. Like it's special. It's supposed to be special, it's supposed to be, you know, a really awesome time in your life. And, you know, I had to build that messaging and build the reason basically why I was doing this. And so maybe that's why I don't feel like I've seen a drop. Uh, it's just because I I kind of feel like it's it's in California, like where I'm located. Um, it's it hasn't always been like a huge deal necessarily. Uh, but I do feel like I feel like it almost is kind of the opposite, to be honest with you. Like I'm kind of seeing an uptick. I'm also seeing an uptick in senior photographers popping up in Southern California, even in just like the last five years, right? Before then, it was, it was not as many of us, right? You would see portrait photographers, obviously, but like senior photographers and doing these kind of specific sessions that we're talking about. That wasn't necessarily a thing. Now I see a lot more of that. So, I mean, I kind of take that when I see saturation like that too. A lot of people are like, oh my God, the market's so saturated. It's like, well, it's, you know, it's more than enough for everybody. Like, I'm really a big believer in abundance mindset. I just refuse to get stuck in the negativity because I don't really feel like there's a purpose in that, honestly. But I also do believe that where there's saturation, you know, there's a reason for it. Like there's a market. But for me, really quickly, the trends that I've kind of seen are definitely more of a pull to, you know, in the moment, movement, not uh images that look on purpose, right? They want, they want professional images and they want to look good. This is what I'm seeing from my clients and a lot of the images that they send me as like examples of things that they want. Uh, they want to look good. They want that editorial like vibe, that movement, the energy, like, you know, nothing super static and traditional. Like that is definitely not something I'm not, I don't ever see clients want super traditional stuff. Like, literally, I see way far the opposite. And I mean, that is, I've seen that for a while, right? That's kind of the way that I shoot anyway. I've always used a lot of movement. I still do prioritize portraits, obviously, too. Like, you know, my job, I think, as a senior photographer is to get what both the parent and the teenager want because they're gonna want different things. That's very, very common. And the parents still do want those like tighter, beautiful portrait shots of their kids smiling. And the teenagers want less of those. But what I see in the ordering sessions is that, you know, they compromise and the parents definitely let their kids call the shots, but they are, they are for sure um still standing their ground when it comes to like, no, I want this image. And the kids they're fine with it, right? They don't maybe love that image of themselves right now, but we know that they're gonna feel differently about it in a few years. And it also has a lot to do with some of the other things that they were talking about in their answers there, right? A lot of this has to do with the post-COVID world and social media and the fact that they have a selfie camera, you know, in front of their face all the time. And it's very different when a photographer is taking an image of you with a professional camera with an 85 lens. It's a different compression. So there's a lot of that at play too. And then just real quick, as far as the um spending and things like that, I think across the board we can all agree that that is probably universal. We've definitely seen a drop in people, you know, um, the amount necessarily probably of clients coming to you. But for me, my prices have always been pretty high. So I I'm kind of used to that as well. I'm used to people not being able to invest in what I do. So um, I don't know if I've necessarily seen a huge drop in. I I definitely my sales are still high. I will say that my sales are still where I'd like them to be. And um, you know, and I'm still I'm still booking clients. So I haven't seen a huge drop, but I also, because of the way that I'm priced, I wasn't like people weren't beating down my door to shoot with me anyway, if that makes sense, right? I mean, like I always have business, but it's not like I have to make people wait months and months to shoot with me because like I'm expensive. And so not everybody can afford that. Anyway, that's just my two cents on that question. Okay, so for this next question, it kind of ties into the first question. So their answers are a little bit about more trends that they're seeing, but also the question is can you share a challenge that you've run into while trying to adapt to these trends? And what made it hard? How did you navigate it? So you'll kind of hear little different things in their answers here. Like they'll chime in with a little bit of a different take on a trend, and then also like the challenge that they've run into, which I think is really interesting.

SPEAKER_02: 24:15

I think one of the other trends is as well, I think we kind of touched on this, but is less perfection. Um, and I've kind of seen this with hair and makeup. And so this would be a challenge that we're trying to adapt to. You know, I really try to say to the seniors, one of the things that I love about getting hair and makeup done is not necessarily that they look perfect, because I I think that that's one of the things my hair and makeup artist does a great job of is still keeping them looking like them. It's just a little bit more polished. But I think the biggest feature of hair and makeup is the reduction of stress. You know, there's this feeling when you're getting it done, when you're getting photos done. Um, and it's just there's something about the pressure of it. And it's like, oh gosh, I want to look perfect or I want everything to go together and without fail when it's a day when you need that, like your hair isn't curling right or something's not happening the way you want it to. And the great thing is it just removes all that pressure. And I think if, you know, as long as we can continue to focus on making them the highlight, you know, and I always say to seniors, I want you to look like you, but I want you to elevate it. You know, you don't want to look back and see yourself in your sloppy sweats. You want to see yourself in an outfit that you really enjoy. And so I think it's kind of finding that blend of showing who you are right now, but a little bit of what you're going to grow into as well. And I think that, you know, that's the purpose of what senior photos are. And I think that's what I've I've tried really hard to show. I think the other thing we're really running into is trying to speak to these kids and trying to speak to the parents because there's so many different, you know, things coming at them. And I think trying to get our message through is a real challenge. Um, and that's kind of something big that I'm trying to work on this year and making sure that my message comes through, you know, my why and how I can help them with that. You know, my why is that I want my seniors and the parents to feel seen. I want them to feel like, you know, that there's a place for them to take up space and that they belong. Um, and I think a lot of 18-year-olds don't feel like they belong and they don't feel like they can take up space. And I think social media leads to that. So I'm really trying to bring that into my messaging. And that's kind of my goal in 26 and 27.

SPEAKER_01: 26:14

The biggest challenge for me has been finding the balance between offering variety while keeping sessions efficient and not overwhelming. Seniors want lots of looks, but they also want relaxed, effortless photos. So for me, the way was planning more intentionally. I choose locations that offer different looks in one area. I guide them through their outfits. They get there, we I tell them what outfits to wear, when and where, and what will photograph well. And so doing all this, it's made our workflow a lot easier and it keeps the sessions fun instead of chaotic.

SPEAKER_03: 26:46

One tend that's been challenging for me is the increasing pressure to keep up with social media. As senior photographers, so much of our visibility now depends on being active online, and social media has become this like necessary evil we can't really ignore. The hard part of it is that it's constantly changing. The tools we use, the algorithms, the style of content changes as well. And the minute I feel like I figured it out, it all shifts again. It can be a full-time job and it's exhausting. I actually stepped away from posting for a bit because I just needed a reset. I know it's gonna impact my business. It was a break I needed to get back to a healthier mindset. I know I have to accept that my social media doesn't have to be perfect. Social media is always gonna be a moving target. So I'm focusing on consistency over perfection and staying true to my own voice. I want my social media to be authentic, like my work. It also helps me that I have a community of photographers I can talk to about all of the trends and what works and what doesn't. It makes it less overwhelming for sure.

SPEAKER_04: 27:46

The challenge would be trying to increase my revenue and profit margins with an overall trend of clients spending less money and vendors and suppliers raising their costs. So one one thing I've done, you know, the the challenge is clients are not gonna willingly want to pay more, but in order to be profitable, I have to increase prices so that you know I'm not getting the double hit between lower profit margins and um lower sales. So one thing that I did is I I didn't want to raise my prices on my special fees because those get people in the door. So what I did is I took my price list and I raised all of my products by just a nominal amount, like um$100,$200, depending on the total cost of the product and my cost of goods for that product. So it that's worked pretty well because once the clients are in the door, I'm fairly confident that I can get that I can get a good sale um with the products that I offer. So people are still purchasing, even though they're purchasing a little less with the prices being raised, it kind of evens that out. So that's what I chose to do. And um, I'm also planning to in January taking a look at my subscriptions and offloading anything that I'm not using or looking at duplication of efforts. And if there's something, if I have more than one product that does the same thing, I'm gonna try to um consolidate and narrow down on those products that I use.

SPEAKER_00: 29:27

All right. So the third question is what do you think today's seniors value most in their senior photo experience? And how has that shaped the way that you shoot, edit, or communicate with your clients?

SPEAKER_01: 29:38

Seniors value the most, they want to look good. They also want to feel comfortable, but they want to feel beautiful and look natural at the same time. So I spend a lot of time with them. I help them choose their outfits. I talk to them like they're regular people. I communicate and talk to them before the session and the whole time during. During the session. Um, we talk about locations. I get a feel for what they want. And on the shoe, I like I said, I just keep talking to them. I move fast. I keep things fun and light. I also edit in a clean, true to color style because they don't want to look overly brushed. They don't want to look filtered. They just want to look confident and natural.

SPEAKER_02: 30:17

I think again, they really want to look like them. So I don't do a lot of editing. I try to get it in the camera the way that I want it. I always tell them if they're not going to have whatever thing is in six months, then I want to get rid of it or six weeks, but anything else, in my opinion, should stay. But I let them kind of lead with that. You know, it's funny, like swimsuit tan lines. Four years ago, five years ago, gosh, nobody would ever leave a swimsuit tan line. And now they're leaving them. Um, I do photograph a lot of swimmers, and so I love it for them because I think it's really who they are. Plus, I'm in Florida and they're proud of their tanns. So I think it's it's good that they leave it, plus it makes my editing easier. So I love that. But I think they really want, I think that they think they want great photos, and I think that they do, but I think they also really want an experience. And I try to say to the parents that I think the parents want that experience with the seniors. I think it's as much for the parents, you know, as it is for the senior to kind of get to watch it. I don't know. Having had my last kid graduate and looking at her photos and, you know, seeing who she's becoming, like, you know, it's this end of everything we did for her. And I just feel like as a parent, I want to look back and see that. I love walking around my house and seeing her photos on my wall or seeing their albums. And I just I can't imagine how a parent doesn't want that. Um, I just think it's such an amazing thing. And so I really try to make sure when I'm shooting, I capture, you know, the parents' pictures, but also the seniors' photos. Although it's really funny, they always end up coming back to the traditional photos. You know, they think they want the things that are outside the norm, but they end up with those traditional ones every time. And I think realistically, even though things have changed and grown, at the end of the day, it's still those classic portraits that went out. Um, I think that, you know, when we look at things years from now, that's what we're gonna want to see. And and somehow that that's still what they end up doing. So I think I'm still trying to balance that. You know, it's funny, like there's that trend for, you know, the blurry photo of, you know, the senior. And I always laugh and say who wants to pay for a blurry photo, and they really don't. Um, so it's kind of funny what what gets liked on Instagram versus what they buy when they come in. Um, I think at the end of the day, it's still that clean classic portrait that the parent feels like I can see your face and I know what you look like. Um, and I think the seniors want to feel like they look polished more than they actually think they do before they start.

SPEAKER_04: 32:37

I think today's seniors are looking for more than just good photos. I think today's seniors are looking for an experience, an experience that makes them feel special, that makes them feel seen, that makes them feel confident. It's something to mark this special time in their life. I really feel like that's also what parents want for their kids. So that creating an experience, I feel like attracts clients to me, even though I'm a luxury photographer and cost more than a lot of local senior photographers. So what I do in my business is I provide hair makeup that makes them feel special and feel like they're getting pampered for a day. Some it's an exc it's an experience that they don't normally get to have. I also include a lot of um movement in my sessions, the way I photograph. That helps them relax, that makes them feel like they're just out having a fun day. I also use off-camera lighting, which helps them feel like they're on the set of a magazine. So there's a lot that goes into the way I shoot. Um that makes them feel valued. I also send them a questionnaire that gets uh to the bottom of like their personality, things that they love. And then I take a look at that and really try to think about ways to capture their personality and their passions during their session. Editing, I hand-touch every photo. They see full edits. I don't show them just basic edits. I show them fully retouched images so that way they see themselves looking beautiful and confident. And I think that helps with how they feel about the overall shoot. And then I also do a lot of communication with both the parent and the senior. The senior gets a magazine for me that lists out all of the important things, how to prep your outfits, what to expect on your session day, how to think about what locations they may want to shoot at. And then for the parents, I'm just very good about leading them along the way, like telling them what's coming, what things they should be thinking about, what to pack the night before for the shoot. I try to lead the client and the parent and the senior. I try to lead them throughout the whole um experience so that the pressure is off of them, the stress is off of them, and they can just enjoy the experience.

SPEAKER_00: 35:16

Okay, awesome answers from everybody. Again, I think I can agree with, you know, all of these little different pieces there. And I love the insights that they each dropped in. And I definitely know that my clients do value the experience. Again, like I'm charging more for the this service, right? Um, they do expect some level of like, they love that I take care of everything for them, right? That's one of the things that the parents definitely tell me is like, I'm just glad you take care of everything. Like, they don't have to worry about anything. They will, you know, gladly pay for that. And I love doing that part of it. Like, that's that's a big piece of it for me. I want them to feel a hundred percent taken care of across the board. And as far as like what I think the seniors value in that experience, I think that they value being seen. Like, like you've heard from the others here, they they do, they may not tell us that, but I do feel like that is something that they do value. And they want to be seen in a way like that they have in their head, right? Like the vision they have of themselves. And this is an identity thing, you know, like a lot of times the vision we have of ourselves is very different than how we are feeling safe enough to portray in day-to-day life. And so I feel like part of what I do is I help people feel comfortable enough to fall into the session. And that's like how I I describe it. And I can always tell when that person falls into the session. It's like, ah, okay, now we're there, right? Like my job is to create the space for them to feel safe and seen and like they trust me. That's a really big piece of what we do as senior photographers. Like, we need to get them to trust us before they even shoot with us. And so that's why I'm, you know, really big on having that authenticity on social, on your on your site, so that people can get to know a piece of of you, right? It makes that trust thing happen so much faster and easier, in my opinion, for sure. And yes, the parents definitely will still value, like I said before, those tight, you know, traditional looking shots. But I gotta tell you, I put blurry photos and albums all the time. Like I always shoot at least a handful of those because I know that the trend is, you know, my clients want that movement. They want the blurry photos, they want those, those trendy things that they see on Instagram. And so I will do that for them. I don't do a ton, but I definitely have fun with it and I challenge myself. And they love those images. And the parents allow them to go in the album. And you can do this a few different ways. Like, you know, for me, I charge per image. You know, like you can get a certain amount of images in the album. So it's up to you. Like if you want to include something like that, you can and maybe just like gift those to the senior, like if it's like two or three of them so that they have them to post on Instagram. You don't have to make them pay for them, right? At the end of the day, like if they're just kind of fun images, it's almost like a detail shot. I kind of see it, right? Like it's like sometimes I'll take detail shots of like the Letterman jacket or you know, of like the boots or whatever. And I'll just kind of like add, I'm like, you know what? There's a couple of those. If you guys love those for the album, I'll just let you guys have those in the album. But I have parents paying for these, these, these blurry images. And so you can definitely do that if that is how you want to run things, right? You can do however you want to do it. But I gotta tell you that they're very popular. Okay, so this next question is with so many photographers out there, what do you feel helps a senior photographer stay relevant and in demand right now?

SPEAKER_01: 39:04

What's helping me stand out is consistency and connection. I have work to develop my own style. There's nobody else that is like me. Nobody else poses, nobody else edits. I have my very own style and I show it consistently. Um I connect with my clients, I make the experience feel easy from the moment that they inquire. What also helps me stand out is that I am very hands-on. I help with their outfits, I calming direction while I'm posing them. I make them feel comfortable quickly, and I just keep working at it until they are completely at ease with me. Parents always say their seniors feel relaxed, that I make them feel good about themselves, and it shows up in the photos. The big thing is also staying true to your editing. Um, I think is huge right now. Seniors can spot inconsistencies a mile away.

SPEAKER_02: 39:54

Up until this year, I feel like my process and my experience and the fact that I felt like the parents really heard me and they realized how important it was to have that moment and that experience with their senior and have the photos that tell their kids' story at the end of the day, you know, at the end of this culmination of 18 years. I don't know that there's anything else we do for 18 years other than when we get married, if we're married for, you know, more than 20, 25, 30 years, but it's so far in the future. You know, as a parent, we've spent 18 years with this kid and 12 years, you know, for them in school. Um, and it's just, it's just a really big deal, I think, for both sides. And I think the sad thing is the senior photographers that are willing to give it away for two and three hundred dollars. I think one of the things I say to my senior parents is, you know, you're not gonna walk away with 100 or 200 photos with me, but you're gonna walk away with 30 that are the ones that you picked that you love. And I think that the process really works. They don't need a hundred photos of their senior. They don't need to wallpaper their house with them, but they really need the ones that that tell their seniors story. And I think that's what kind of helps when I meet with my clients and we go through it. I like to think what helps me stand out is my use of flash. I think we have great sunsets here in Florida and and I use the water a lot. And I think my my seniors like that. I'm trying to give a blend of the natural light and the flashlight together so that they feel like they really get both. And I think that's one of the things that helps separate me. But I do see a decrease in senior photos right now. I'm hoping it's just, you know, a shift. I'm hoping it's partially the economy and, you know, I think just the COVID hangover and people kind of figuring out where they want to invest. But I will say again, after, you know, now that I'm an empty nester and I have no kids, you know, that I'm technically raising that same way, it makes those pictures priceless. Um, and there's just no other way to say it. And you know, I'll have parents that say that to me. I've been photographing kids that are, you know, seniors now and I photographed them when they were newborns. And and their parents will say, like, I love going back and looking at their books and seeing, you know, how I felt when they were babies and now to be doing this is just crazy, you know. And I think that that's what makes it such a special process. You know, photos are more valuable as time goes on. And I think it's important that we remember that.

SPEAKER_04: 42:11

I think first and foremost, providing the good experience and word of mouth. So I want to provide an amazing experience for every parent and senior that walks through my door so that when they get asked, hey, who did your kids' senior photos? I am top of mind. I also try to stay in touch with those clients throughout the year, even if it's just to check in and say, hey, how's so-and-so doing at college this year? keeps me top of mind. Again, so that I'm thought of when they get asked the question about a senior photographer recommendation. I also post on social media and do behind the scenes videos along with final images. I think potential clients and seniors especially want to see what goes on behind the scenes. They want to have something that's a little aspirational and something that's different than they're seeing on every other photographer's social media. And then lastly, I have really taken a lot of time to make sure that my photos look amazing. I've learned how to work with light. I've learned how to pose clients of all different body types and shapes, and I've learned how to make the clients feel special. I think those photos, having photos that stand out helps because, you know, unfortunately, there are a lot of photographers who didn't take the time to learn how to do good quality photos. Um, and there are also a lot of brand new photographers out there who are learning, which is amazing. But I want to attract that client that values photography and sees the difference in my photos versus someone else's.

SPEAKER_00: 43:50

I love those answers because it's a great reflection. And so, like, I would invite you, if you're listening to this as a photographer, ask yourself that question. Like, uh with so many photographers out there, what do you feel helps you stand out and relevant and stay in demand? And if you don't feel that you are, okay, why would that be? Right. Allow yourself to just get curious about that. Because, you know, one of the things that I'm always talking about is like standing out, standing out, standing out. But that's also part of like my why, right? Like I want people to just like stand in their authenticity, like who they really are, unapologetically, like just be yourself. Like literally, I know it sounds so cheesy, but that is a very, very big piece of my why and like my purpose. I I feel it myself, right? Like I want people to know the real me. I am so like sick of surface level shit. Like I'm so over surface level conversations and small talk, and but I want to go deep into a conversation with you, right? Like I want to find out really what's going on. And I want to just kind of cut to the chase. And I think that that is part of what helps me stand out with my seniors as well, is that, you know, like I said before, it's my job to get them to fall into the session quickly. And, you know, we don't have that much time. I want them to like get in there and like we so we can get the best images possible. And a big piece of that is me leading with that energy. It's like, oh no, you're gonna see the real me. And I'm, you know, I'm not putting on a mask for you. Like, this is who you get. I'm weird. Yep, yeah, I totally get it. But it gives other people permission to be themselves, right? Like, so when you are your most authentic self, the most you that you can be, you give other people permission to do that as well. And so I think that's a really big plus in just in general on how you can stand out. But I love these other answers on like using off-camera flash, especially at the beach. And you know, I was at the beach last night shooting a beautiful sunset. Like, we got such a great sunset, and as we were leaving, somebody was getting proposed to. And this happens a lot at the beaches here, and somebody was getting proposed to, and I was watching from afar, so that wasn't gonna be in their shot, and it made me so sad because the photographer didn't like it was dark already. Like, we had this gorgeous sky, gorgeous. There was no ambient light left, and they could not have been getting that sunset. Like they were having to expose for the faces, right? Because they're it's a proposal, but they had this gorgeous backdrop that the per person is not gonna see in those photos because they didn't have off-camera flash. Now, I you guys know I am a natural light photographer. Like I've talked about that a lot. Like I'm unapologetic about that. I am not bringing a big ass light. I'm not doing it. If that's what you want to do and that's what you incorporate, that is amazing. Do you? Please do. Uh, for me, I'm not doing it. I'm I hate carrying gear. So I very, very, very rarely use OCF. And when I do, it is handheld, it's small, it's my Pro Photo A1X. It's, you know, I someone else holds it for me. I use a reflector the rest of the time. So I am using reflected light uh and I'm controlling it, but usually with the big reflector most of the time. And I think that, you know, for me, that's also part of what makes me stand out is that my images look a certain way because I use light in that way. And so whatever your signature is, that is going to be the thing that makes you stand out visually. But then on top of that, how are you standing out as, you know, a photographer among photographers, right? What's gonna get someone to pull the trigger to shoot with you when your work is as good as, you know, the next person's work, right? That's where that personality, that's where that like, you know, being the most you that you can be actually is important. Okay, and so the next question is what's helping you in particular stand out and why do you think it's important for senior photographers to stay plugged into a community as the industry evolves? And how has being an Elevate supported you in staying current, creative, or confident as things shift because they shift so quickly?

SPEAKER_01: 48:15

Okay, so for senior photography, it's always changing. It's trying to figure out what it is the teenagers want, what they're into. And that's not always easy to see. So working in a community, you can talk about it, all the different trends, marketing, how people are editing, the pricing. So being connected to a community gives me perspective, but the biggest thing is it helps me feel like I'm not my own little bubble. Elevate is um a step above every other community that I've been a part of because it is so dialed into seniors. Um, the marketing, the big thing is the marketing. It's helped me become more confident. I feel like I'm more current with what's going on with the seniors. I love hearing what the other senior photographers are doing. I love seeing their different approaches. And the big thing is getting support during busy seasons. It's kept me from burning out or second guessing myself. It's been invaluable. I also want to add here that it's been you, Renee, too, that you look beyond the trends and the pricing, editing, and all that. Although that's part of it. But you offer support to make us look inward to see what's holding us back from doing something different. Um, I've never had that in any other community that I've been a part of. And that has been a huge game changer for me. And stepping out of my comfort zone and finding things that I really do love because I'm not so scared of it.

SPEAKER_03: 49:40

I think it's super important for senior photographers to stay plugged into a real community because let's face it, we can all get wrapped up in our own little creative bubble. So we might not notice what's happening around us, how the industry is evolving. And it's not that you have to chase every trend, especially if it's not true of you or your clients, but it's all about staying aware. And I just like learning about what other photographers are seeing in their corners of the country because it keeps me fresh, it keeps me relevant and gives me a broader perspective. Otherwise, I'd be stuck in my own little creative silo. And the connection. Being an entrepreneur can be so lonely. I love having my own group of coworkers to be able to chat with. And when I say community, I do mean actual real people who you can get to know, have a conversation with, and have a relationship with, not just stuck in some group that you're following along what's happening. So for me, Elevate has helped with all of these things. It keeps me current because I'm constantly hearing what other photographers are navigating in in real time. It also pushes me creatively because I'm surrounded by people who do what I do, but they might do it differently. And that always sparks new ideas for me. And I'll be honest, it's given me a lot of confidence. Photography and running your own business can be really isolating, especially when you're second-guessing yourself or comparing your work to everyone else online. Don't compare yourself to other people online. And we actually talk about that in our group. So, um, but having a group where we can talk openly about business, pricing, creativity, and even the emotional side of writing a business has grounded me and helped me so much. It reminds me that we're all growing and adapting together. And having that support makes it so much easier to evolve without getting burnt out. And honestly, all the women in our group are just super fun. Um, it brightens my day when I get to chat with them and hear what they're doing and on Zooms, like all connecting and getting to see actual real people. I don't know. I just think having that connection is super important, like an actual real connection.

SPEAKER_04: 51:42

I think having a community of like-minded people is priceless. It's been really, really amazing being in the Elevate group because I know I have a group of people who are going through some of the same things that I'm going through, having the same challenges, having the same questions. And before Elevate, I was just asking my husband or my parents or my sister or a friend, hey, what do you think about this? They're not in the industry. They don't live and breathe this every day. So it's hard for them to give good advice. And what they think is good advice sometimes is the opposite of what you should be doing. So having that sounding board to just be able to ask questions, get the support, talk things through when you need it, that has been invaluable. And the Elevate group has just been amazing. Renee is just on top of things. Um, she always knows the latest trends, she always knows, you know, what's going on with social media or AI or Gen Z or Gen Alpha that's coming up. So it's always great to get that current information from Renee. Um, and then Renee and the group are just so supportive. I went through some personal things this year with family, and um they were even there to support me during that. So, you know, they've just been just a blessing, and I'm so grateful for all of the women in that in the elevate group.

SPEAKER_02: 53:09

I can't even say that it's necessarily elevate. That's just a whole different thing to keep my mindset better. And um, I just I feel like, you know, you really helped show me the things about me that create a challenge in my job as well as positivity in my job. And I think that's really helped in a year that has felt very unstable. And I think that has been the benefit for me with Elevate. But one of the reasons that I've always enjoyed working with you and why I respect you is because I think you do a great job of blending your business side with, of course, your woo-woo, but not just that, like how you can go in and you take what's happening in Gen A and Gen X and I should say Gen Z, Gen X is me. Um, but all of those different generations and how that's changing, how we have to market and what we need to do. And and I think that's come really into play for me. I mean, this year, I think is the first time I really sat down when we did it and did my why. And and that was huge. Um, it was a very, it was a very big shift for me to see why I do the things that I do. But also, you know, kind of exhausting as, you know, we keep feeling like we have to recreate ourselves. And I know we've discussed that a lot in in our elevate phone calls, that it feels like it's constantly evolving and it's evolving faster at this point than we can keep up. And so I feel like you do a really good job of staying on the pulse of that and helping us, you know, stay creative and have that confidence to to know when we're talking to people, this is what we're seeing happening, because you know, you show us where the information comes from and all that. I I just I think it it helps to keep it helps to keep us centered.

SPEAKER_00: 54:38

Okay. Well, of course, as much as I love to hear all their takes on, you know, why Elevate has been helpful for them, my intention with this was really for you guys listening to be able to, you know, just hear from, you know, regular photographers out there why they are in the containers that they're in, right? Why they think that community is important. And I think that hearing those different perspectives just in general is just, it's, it's a really good thing for all of us to be aware of because you don't know what you don't know, you know? And of course, I want Elevate to be a nurturing, supportive, you know, high vibe community. Like that's really important to me. I'm so protective of this group. I can't even tell you how many of my own coaches that I've hired to help me with my business look at this and go, that's how much you're not charging them a month. That that's the whole price for six months, and they get that much from you. And I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm not, I'm not raising it. That's this is this is what it is. It's I'm not doing that. So like people who've been with me in Elevate for years, they pay an alumni price. They're locked in at the price that they come in at. I don't raise that price for them every year. So like the price that it's at right now, they're not paying that. They keep re-enrolling and they're locked in at the price that they enrolled at. Some of them, that's like been three years ago. So I love this group. I love supporting them, you know, via Zoom, Vox, or in person. Like sometimes we also do some in-person things. And that just lights me up, right? So I do it a lot for myself, and I know it's not the best business decision, like monetarily. I know it's not. And and maybe one day I'll decide to retire it. But for now, I really feel called to continue doing it in this way, and they continue asking to come back. So, you know, I love this group. They've grown so much. Like, it's really, really cool when one of them will pop in and, you know, say something that they've just recently done and they can recognize in themselves like I wouldn't have been able to do this a couple years ago. Like I stood in my boundary, or I was able to create this system and this process for something that I don't have to do anymore. And they feel empowered in a way that they didn't feel before. That shit lights me up. So love them. Thank you guys for those sweet, sweet answers. All right. Last question is what would you tell a new senior photographer just now entering the game?

SPEAKER_01: 57:18

I tell them to keep it simple in the beginning. Focus on your connection, your communication, making your client feel comfortable, making your client feel beautiful, and find one editing style that you love, not a whole bunch. Don't chase every trend. Learn to read light, learn to pose in a natural way, give your clients a great experience. Because if seniors feel comfortable with you, they're gonna tell their friends, and that's still the best marketing in the world.

SPEAKER_03: 57:45

So if I were giving advice to a new senior photographer, I'd really focus on three things. First, make sure you genuinely love the business side just as much as the creative side. It's gonna be what makes your business grow and what makes it sustainable. It's easy to dive in to a photography business just because you love taking photos. I mean, hey, we all started that way. We all love doing that, but you're gonna spend a lot of time on things like editing, taxes, client communication, marketing, and planning. Don't get me wrong, taking the photos of my clients is definitely my favorite part, but I don't get to do those things without having to do all the other. Second, I would say you need to value who you are and what you offer right from the start. When you know your own worth, it sets the tone for how clients will value you too. It is also what keeps you going when things get hard, frustrating, or discouraging. And trust me, they're going to. But if you know your worth, it makes it so much easier. And finally, as soon as you can, talk to someone who's been on this journey. Hire a mentor or a coach because investing in yourself and having that guidance will help you shape a business that grows with you and reflects your evolving experience and skills. Do your research though before you hire. I wasted a lot of money on things that seemed great at first, or maybe they were the cheapest option of what I was looking at, or maybe they had the flashiest marketing and it looks super easy and so fun. But those things just don't live up to the hype. So before you hire someone, make sure you do research, but definitely hire someone as soon as you can.

SPEAKER_02: 59:20

I think the hardest thing is knowing how we can communicate to our audience. It seems like, again, social media feels so overwhelming that I I don't, I don't, I don't know how we get in the face of people to do it. And I think that's one of the things that we have to learn and grow with through 26 and the class of 26 and 27 is really how to get them to see it. I have noticed, you know, I live on the East Coast, you live on the West Coast. Um, I've noticed a lot of differences between how things travel around the coasts and then what happens as it goes into the Midwest. Like I feel like the Midwest is a little bit behind us in all things. And so I feel like, you know, as I talk to a lot of people, the ones that are still, you know, seeing lots of growth and lots. Of clients and people still really excited about it. To me, that feels very much like that is a Midwest thing and not as much in the coastals. So it'll be interesting to see how that evolves. I hope it's not the end of this part of the industry because I do feel like it's a really great thing. I'm hoping that AI doesn't become a part of it. And not that I don't think that AI has its benefits, but I think when we're creating pictures to show us as a senior, like I think we want the experience. I do think that that's one of the things is that because these seniors are really focused on authenticity, I'm hoping that keeps AI out of the side of the industry, which is one of the things that I would tell a new senior photography to focus on. Use your AI to help you minimize your jobs or, you know, to to help in editing or things like that. But but don't create images that that people can go and create without you. You know, you want to be, you want to be necessary. And I think that's really important. I think the other thing, too, that I would say to a new senior photographer is definitely find your why and use that in all the marketing that you do and find it early, you know. But I learned, because of course you and I had that conversation five years ago. I learned that shooting has taught me a lot about my client and where I'm going. And I don't know that I could have answered that until I had done it. I remember thinking when I first met you, um, if I had to describe my wedding clients, I could do that so easily because I'd shot weddings for 10 years. And at seniors, I had no idea. I had an idea in my head of who I thought my client should be. And it has evolved immensely. Um, but it took time to get there, you know. And even this year, I feel like my client has been a little bit different, not necessarily where I saw it going and and what I thought I wanted. And now I feel like where I was a couple of years ago was was more in tune with what my why was. So I think I have some adjustments to make on that side of it as far as, you know, senior photography. I just, I think the greatest part of it is just showing these kids how amazing they are and letting them have a place to come back and and see themselves years from now. And I think that's that's just really important. I think they're gonna change and grow. I've seen it in my own kids. I have, you know, one that's 22 and I have one that's 18, well, 19. And I and I can see the difference in what they thought they would be like when they went to college and and who they are now. And I just I think it's really sad when parents miss it. It's funny when I used to photograph pregnancy, which I have not done in a decade and a half, but when I did, I used to say to people, do it. What's the worst thing? You don't like them, don't buy anything, but you can't go back and do it afterwards. And I think that's kind of the same thing with seniors, you know, get the photos, do it, have the experience. If you don't want them, then don't buy them. But, you know, and I think it's really important to have the experience, not in a studio, you know, one of those that school makes you do, you know, that that photo with them in their cap and gown or their drape or whatever. I think it's just really important to capture who they are. And I think the kids are having a hard time putting who they are into words. And this kind of pushes them outside their comfort zone. And I love that for them. And that was what I, you know, kind of summarizing everything together. I think it's really trying to get kids to see that focusing in on where they're growing and going and and who they are and their their favorite pastimes and little, you know, bits and pieces about them will really tell their senior story and something they'll want to look at, you know, 10, 15, 20 years down the road.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:11

I would tell them that it is a great industry, but it is a tough industry. And I think the most important things that have gotten me through are consistency, showing up, taking risks and not just copying what everyone else is doing. You have to have your own needs in the industry. I also think being stubborn and not being willing to quit has helped me as well. I'm starting my 11th year in business. And um, you know, a lot of photographers don't last that long because they just have a year or two where it's a possible and then they just, you know, whether whether it's because they they have no choice or they just are afraid to keep going, they just with that business and go into something else. But if you're a newer senior photographer out there and you're willing to put in the time and the work and learn your craft, learn how to use your camera, learn lighting, learn posing, learn how to work with your specific clients and providing experience and learn about what's trending among teens today. All of those things will help you stand out in the industry. And um, you know, just keep at it, don't give up. This is such a a blessing to be able to have this business. And it's been the best thing that I've ever done in my life. Um, and it it has been hard and it hasn't been easy, but I've grown so much throughout the process. And I know you will too.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:40

Okay, those were awesome suggestions for anybody who is trying to get into senior photography. And I think that one of the main things to remember too is that, you know, you're gonna hear a lot of naysayers just in general, just you know, if you're starting any business, but especially a creative, a creative business, you're gonna hear a lot of people tell you things like, oh, it'll never work, it's gonna be really hard, all that kind of stuff, right? But I mean, if you really have this business on your heart, if it's been with you and you really feel called to do this, you really do owe it to yourself to follow through, right? You don't want to wake up in the future at some point, you know, in your 50s or 60s, looking back and being like, wow, I really, I really wish I would have done something that lit me up. And look, it may or may not work, but here's the thing: you get to decide. And you also, you also will find out more about yourself along the way on this journey than you would had you not started a business. Let me just tell you. You really do find out a lot about yourself. And it's not always comfortable, it's not always easy to look into all of that, but it's a fascinating journey. It truly has been. Like you, I would never have thought that I would be a photography business owner. Like, that's just not something that was ever on my radar when I was in my 20s. And I'm just so grateful that I followed the little breadcrumbs that brought me here. I've learned so much more about myself. I've made so much money for my family. But really, what it comes down to is that I've been able to really connect with people deeply. Like being a photographer is is, yeah, you gotta know your technique and you gotta be good at what you do, but it is a people job. Portrait photography is a people job. And the way you make people feel is so much more valuable than the piece of paper that that photo is printed on. Yes, that's a beautiful outcome. And I love having those tangible pieces of our time together. But ultimately, you know, after the session is done, they're already walking away with something, right? They are walking a little bit taller, they're feeling a little bit more confident, they're feeling happy and alive and seen and and truly valued for who they are. And that's really the main reason why I still run this photography business, right? I mean, I could have dropped this business by now and done just coaching. And, you know, at some point I probably will just because capacity-wise. But I love what I do as a photographer. And like I said, I think it's I know it's way deeper than just pretty pictures, meeting somebody in a park, hand them on flash drive. No. It's it's way deeper than that for me. And so I love these answers that they popped in with. All these perspectives are so interesting and and valuable for me. And I know that they will be for you guys too. So I hope that this episode was helpful. I know it was different than my format usually is. And, you know, the sound isn't going to be 100% perfect because we're they're recording on different devices. And I just wanted to make this as easy as possible for them to get this information to me. I didn't want them to have to like jump through a lot of hoops. Everybody's super busy, very cognizant of people's time. And I, you know, why not use technology that we have while we have it? So I think it was great. I was able to send them the questions and give them an overview. And most of them were able to just send these to me over Voxer. So it's perfect. I'd love to hear your take too. If you're a senior photographer, go ahead and let me know. Share this episode on social tag me and then add yours to it as well. Maybe I'll make that a little tag and you guys can jump in on that. That would be fun. Uh, I'd love to hear your perspective and your take on this. And I would love to also continue to lift up other voices in our community. Obviously, I always want to help out my elevate members and get them out there and shout them out from the rooftops because I think they're all amazing. And this is just a small sampling of them. There's a lot of other amazing female photographers in this group. And I appreciate them just for so much. And I would love for you to get to know them better by joining us for this next round. If you feel like you want to be a part of what we got going on, you should join us for January through June of 2026. We talk a lot about marketing and social media marketing and you know, visibility being seen, but also what are your values? What are your core beliefs and your purpose and your why? And how is that all tied to your marketing? How can we make that even easier with AI? Going deeper into systems and automations and processes and staying up to date on all the latest trends and all the things that we need to be thinking about. Like that's what I love to do for you guys inside of Elevate. I want to keep you guys up to date and on top of things. And also going out there with a positive mindset because I know it can be really hard. It can be really heavy and it can feel really lonely. It feels like you're talking to nobody on social media because it's, it's, it's just this vast whatever, right? My job as your coach is to not just, you know, blow smoke up your butt. It's to get you aligned, keep you aligned, right? Like get you aligned and keep you aligned and help you uncover what you what's already there. Okay. Like I just want to help uncover what you've already got going on. And I want you to have like a deep, deep sense of purpose and a self-belief that is unshakeable, that'll get you through anything because we all go through those times, all of this. I don't care who you are. We all go through these times of feeling isolated and lonely and like nobody gets us. And so I know that it's really important to have a community of people who have your back and who get it, who get it. Like at the end of the day, they understand what's going on. And so, yeah, we're doing work in there. We're, we're talking strategies and marketing, and but we're also we are rooting into purpose and the bigger themes of life and you know, creating a business that feels really good, that doesn't just look good, but that feels really good. That's what I do inside of all my coaching, one-on-one or elevate, but it's super powerful to be in a group of so many like-minded women, truly. So I'd love for you to join us. You can apply now. Signups will end soon in December. So you need to sign up now and you need to apply. When you click the link in the show notes below, you'll be able to find out everything you need to know about it. But you can always hit me up on Instagram as well if you have any questions. Let me know. I'm happy to chat with you. I will probably send you some voice messages about it, but I would love to chat with you about it if you feel like it might be the right fit for you. Let's talk. And then if we decide that it is, I'll send you a link and get you signed up and you can join us in January. Okay, so don't forget we've got that amazing class on December 10th as well, Unavoidable. I will put that link below if you want to get really clear, like shed what you don't need to take into 2026 and get really clear on what you do want to take in there, join us for that class. My Elevate members do get it for free. So a lot of those members will be on that call. That's the other cool thing about Elevate. You do get stuff that I create, little pop ups, you get those for free. It's kind of an awesome deal, I'm not gonna lie. So, all right, you guys, have a great rest of your week. Love ya. Bye.