SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Welcome to Tried and True with the Dash of Woo, where we blend rock solid tips with a little bit of magic. I'm Renee Bowen, your host, life and business coach, and professional photographer. At your service, we are all about getting creative, diving into your business, and playing with manifestation over here. So are you ready to get inspired and have some fun? Let's dive in. Hey friends, welcome back to Tried and True with The Dash of Woo. I'm your host, Renee Bowen. I hope that you are doing well and taking care of yourself. This has been a really combustible couple of weeks in particular. And there's a lot going on. So first I just want to check in with you guys and kind of see how you're doing. I have definitely been, you know, rooting into my own non-negotiables of journaling. Journaling is just sort of like my outlet and walking and moving my body. Like those two things are kind of just kind of keeping me going right now. So hopefully you are finding a way to regulate as well. I also wanted to let you guys know that I have a private podcast called Calibrate. And for a short time until mid-February, I am just offering it for free. Normally, this is it's$99 now. It the price increases over time because that is where I put my hypnosis tracks and activations and any of this like deep unconscious work that I do. And it will increase over time. But I'm offering it to everyone for free until mid-February. It's just my small attempt in trying to help people stay regulated or get regulated and uh you know be grounded. Hypnosis can be a really useful tool. I know a lot of people are kind of freaked out by it. They're like, what are you programming me with? And it's it's not like that at all. You know, trance is a very natural state for us to go into. And your unconscious mind basically runs most of the show. So when we're doing these, you know, hypnosis tracks, and most of them are between like 15, 20, maybe 30 minutes long. Like some of them are shorter, some are longer, and some are more like activations, meaning you're not like going into a deeper trance. And the goal with all of them, regardless of what track you're listening to, because they all have different themes and different topics that we're sort of addressing, is to just help you stay regulated. It's to just get you into nervous system regulation, get you back into, you know, rest and digest as opposed to fight or flight. Because you're going to be able to just access everything better from that place. And I just also know that it's it's harder sometimes to access that within yourself. So this can be a really good shortcut. I recommend not driving, listening to them, but other than that, you can listen to them, you know, however you like. You don't have to be like at rest or you know, in a meditative state or anything like that. Like just put your headphones in, like edit some photos, like, you know, clean your house even. The idea is that I'm speaking to your unconscious mind. And so we're kind of like reprogramming at the root of everything. And a good side effect of all of them is that you just feel nice and relaxed, usually, and a lot more, you know, calm and positive because I also lay my hypnosis tracks over binaural beats because binaural beats are just by themselves pretty amazing. So it's kind of a win-win. I'm gonna put the link below with the code already attached. There's a um a coupon code called resist, but uh the link in the show notes will take you right to check out with the code applied. So it'll just be free. And yes, that means that you will have access to any other tracks that I add over time. I hope you guys enjoy it and I hope that it helps you feel more grounded and centered. So today's episode is specifically for my senior photographers. Every now and then I have an episode that is geared towards us. I am a senior photographer as well. What we do is really specific. But today I have a guest on who's also been in the industry for a very long time. He is far away from where I live. We're in very different regions and we run fairly different businesses. But he is such a cool guy. A lot of you guys already know him. And I just wanted to get Dan on the show. It's Dan Freivault. And he also has an education side to his business too. And today we're talking about that. We're talking about education, but we're also talking about like some of the things that a lot of senior photographers are still doing in their businesses that are actually counterproductive and possibly even hurting their marketing going into 2026. So if there's one thing Dan and I both know after being actively in the senior photography industry for as long as we have, it's that there are a lot of ways to run a senior business. Some photographers prefer more boutique businesses, some prefer more volume, and some want a mix of both of those, as well as, you know, maybe continuing to offer other genres. And some like to stick to seniors just mainly. We talk a little bit about that in today's episode as well, and why we've structured our businesses the way that we have. And there's a lot of noise out there currently and for a while now. So my intention with today's show is to share what we've collectively seen and done to pivot as well as stay grounded in these wild times. So hopefully that is going to help any senior photographer listening or watching to build their business into one that is both profitable and deeply meaningful. Dan's a really cool guy. We have a really fun conversation. You're gonna get a lot out of it. So let's dig in. Okay, Jan. So I want to just jump right into this topic of marketing because it does seem to be. Well, I know it is for me. You probably see it in your communities too. It can be a really uh triggering thing for a lot of photographers, right? Because like we love staying behind the camera. It's our happy place. And then we have got to like step out and actually get those clients. So what would you say? Because we run different businesses and we're in different parts of the country. What would you say is a big, like a piece of marketing advice that not only doesn't work necessarily for senior photographers any longer, but could actually possibly be hurting their marketing?

SPEAKER_00: 6:31

Sure. And you kind of hit the nail on the head by saying we're in two different, like completely different markets. Uh you know, you're like California area, right? And I'm Midwest. And a few things, well, not a few things, but like it's surprisingly so different from what I've learned through the years with being that far apart or that different ends of the United States, which you wouldn't think it'd be that different, but it is. And one thing that is kind of what I have the benefit of is looking at the trends that are more progressive, like that are happening over by you, and then kind of bringing them. So we're a little bit behind here in the Midwest, or things just take a little bit longer for the trends to catch on. So that's kind of a benefit that I have in in the Midwest. So I'm always looking to see what what you guys are doing over there, because it's like, oh, that's really cool. And and sometimes it's it's too progressive, even. Like I'll do something like, oh, this is so fashion forward and this is so cool. Like, like I was doing like some on-camera flash, like direct flash with like you know like a point and shoot kind of camera. I dug this whole thing out here and stuff, and and people are like, that looks that looks really wrong, you know, kind of. And it's like that's cool, that's like the in thing, but it's like maybe too progressive. Um, so uh that kind of got off on a different tangent there. But yeah, I'm always looking ahead, and and one thing that has kind of really gone down in for several, several years now is model teams. It's kind of made a resurgence again, or even calling them model teams. Again, you know, when I first started, it was like ambassadors, and and then it kind of switched to model, and they're like, no, people, I don't feel like a model, so I don't want to apply or be a part of it. And so it was influencer and the whole influencer with Instagram, like just paying attention to even some buzzwords makes a big difference. So uh I I see the the teams coming back, but not in the way they originally were formatted. And of course I'm dating myself with this stuff too. But you know, back in the day, you know, you had their ambassador, and they, you know, they they got you names that you could direct mail market to, and and then you did like a shoot with them, or maybe you know, they got referrals and they got money for those referrals where that doesn't really work. It hasn't worked for a long time. Like kids don't want to promote for you. Um, and me personally, I don't want them to promote for me per se. Like I want them to to be good, feel good about the session and naturally talk about it and have an organic-ness to it, then you get 50 bucks for every person that comes here, kind of thing. Because, you know, first of all, they're not gonna do it. And then if you have those expectations, even if you have that expectation that they're gonna like take you in a post, uh, you're gonna be disappointed. And that's where I see a lot of photographers get frustrated with a program like that because they're not like doing what they want them to do. Well, they're they're they're not into that, so you have to lean into what their vibe is and and play off of that. So, you know, if it's a group shoot, if it's going to a thrift store and buying a bunch of stuff and making it a fun project, or like, you know, they also like to do things that kind of help the community. So for the longest time, I was doing like charity stuff, and it's like we would all you know go and we would collect shoes and send them to Ecuador, like things like that. And it had nothing to do with the program, but we were doing something good and people talked about it organically, and then, oh, hey, maybe I'll get my pictures done there as well.

SPEAKER_02: 10:12

Yeah. Yeah. So that's a definitely, I mean, I was seeing that for a long time now because yeah, you're right. Like I hear a lot of uh, you know, from either coaching students or people in my community who are in the Midwest, you know, I do tend to see things a little bit sooner. And that's one of the reasons why I uh I shifted my model team to an influencer team. I think I might have been one of the first people to call it an influencer team, like way, way back. Because people were like, What are you doing? Like literally, like most of the senior photographers is really before I was starting to coach a lot, but I was kind of doing a little bit of speaking and like doing workshops like with other people. And they're like, What do you mean, influencer? And I was like, Well, what I'm seeing in my market is that this is kind of where everything is going. Like he said, like we the whole reason why we do teams, right, was to help bring more attention to the business. But that was changing already, like way back in 2016 and 2017, even for me. It was like they were just like, uh, I don't know, you know, if I'm really tied into all of that. So I had to get creative on like, okay, how can I continue to do this? Because like that's how I built my my business. That's how I built my entire senior photography business was having a model team, right? And so I had to figure out on the fly very quickly how I was going to still be able to do that. But also like the changing trends with my clients and be able to meet them where they where they were. And that was a big piece of it was incorporating meaning and purpose and something outside of themselves and you know, definitely making it more about that experience and not necessarily about just them as well. Like, because they started to not want to be too showy and be out there, you know, showing off themselves. Like I was not a few people who want to do that, but on the whole, they were not doing that already back then. And so that that worked really well. And then it shifted again for me a few years ago. This whole creator economy with TikTok and everything else that was changing in like 2019, the basically the before 2020 hit, you know, I was on TikTok in 2019 and I was telling senior photographers, like, you gotta get on TikTok. And they were like, absolutely not. And I always feel like because like I've been talking about Gen Z since 2014. And so every time like, I'm like, you guys, come on, it's coming, it's coming. And I don't know if it's just, I think it's part of my personality, just sort of like be like that. To like, I want like I'm an early adopter, like I gotta have the new phone, I just like new tech, that kind of stuff. And so I think I'm just like wired to like figure out what's coming next. And so it does, it takes like a a little a little bit of time to for it to sort of bleed into the rest of the country. And so what I was seeing was that okay, the influencer stuff was dying a while ago. And then, but they still they they work more in this creator, creative like experience, and they still wanted the experience. So I pivoted again to like the creative team and more, you know, meeting them again where they were. And now we're we're moving into Gen Alpha, like Gen Z, it's this shifting. I think like the the clients that we have like now, you know, and even in the last year or two, I would say, you know how there's that gap between Gen X, which is me, and millennials, which is they call Zenials, right? Like, because it's like they're not really Gen X, but they're not really millennials either. And that I think is what we're we're in right now with like the Gen Z transition to Gen Alpha. And then in a few years it's gonna like kind of get a little bit more clear as we come down the road. But essentially, you know, as senior photographers, we are working with teenagers. And so, you know, we might be in our 40s, 50s, whatever, but but we have to look to the youth culture because every single trend starts with youth youth culture, all of them, every social media platform, everything. And so, like, yeah, and it moves quickly. And because of social media now, it's moving even more quickly than it ever has before, which is also another issue that I see. Which is how you keep up, right? So, why do you think photographers just in general, I think, you know, like I said, we're we are in this market where we have to market to teens and their parents. Um, but I I find that a lot of photographers, especially those of us who've been around for a long time, they tend to resist these changes, right? Like, why do you see that a lot? And what do you think, what do you think is what that's about?

SPEAKER_00: 14:48

Yeah, I think I'm kind of I'm kind of like you, but sometimes I just can't keep up as much uh with everything. Uh, because I the thing I love about photographing high school seniors is the fact that it's always changing because as a creative mind, I get stagnant. So I love the challenge. I love how every year it's different or the marketing is different. And this this, you know, each generation, not even generation, but each class here has micro, like you said, things that something influences it and it's different, and it's different. So that's one thing that can probably frustrate a lot of um people if they're they're set in their ways and they just want to like flow and and make it easy and and have you know something that's repetitive. Senior photography, that market is not that way. Like you, like you said, you have to be on the ball, or like, oh, now I have to learn TikTok, or now I have to learn, or even Instagram. Like you if you built up this huge following on Instagram and you were you know posting, posting, posting stills, but then when TikTok came along, Instagram started pushing out more of the video because they wanted to complete with TikTok with TikTok. So now all your reach, your organic reach you were getting, which is still images, which were photographers like, yeah, I can just dump an image. No, now we have to do reels, now we have to do you know stories, and and it just gets, I think, for people who've been it in a long time, they get burnt out, they get worn out. The older you get, the you know, and I'm getting, I'm gonna, I'm over 50. I'm like, I don't know how I'm gonna be my birthday next month. But so you start to like I realize certain tech is like, oh, every day I'm dealing with something with tech that isn't working. And uh, so you know, if you're not real techie, that can be very frustrating, I think, for you. So maybe that's why a lot of people can't keep up and won't keep up, or they feel like if your senior market is kind of declining because maybe they have they feel like there's a lot of competition or everything can be on the phone, and it's easy to kind of give up than to fight through it. And and and along with that, you might say, Well, I'm gonna go back to doing weddings or doing the volume work or like spreading yourself thin. I shouldn't say thin, but you're you're reaching for other things, and then you're not focused 100% on the senior market. And I've been there, I used to photograph everything, and many, many years ago I said, That's it, I'm done. I I don't like weddings, I don't like photographing babies, I don't like any photographing anyone under age of nine. Like, give me like the tweens and the seniors, and I'm I love it, I absolutely love it. And what I realized is when I focused in on that, my business got better because I was a hundred percent focused on that, and I was paying attention to trends, and I had systems locked in, emails, pricing, sales, like everything, marketing was really locked in because I was focused a hundred percent on that. And I think in business, we always want to reach out and do everything. I see photographers, it's always funny when I see like specializing in seniors, weddings, dogs, pets, aunts, uncles, you know. I'm like, are you really specializing if you list all those things?

SPEAKER_02: 18:10

So no, I think that you bring up a really, really good point. I mean, because something I obviously talk a lot about is mindset because I'm also like certified in life coaching and all of that, because people were coming to me for how do you do this and how do you do this? And I was showing up, but they weren't doing it, right? And I'm like, okay, there's something else going on here. And so that brings up kind of this point too, is like this when you aren't really, I feel like when you're not really connected and rooted in to your purpose, like outside of photography, even like your just your true sense of purpose, and feel really confident and grounded in it. And then how you express it through your photography, it is gonna be really easy to get super distracted. We have very creative brains. Most of us have ADHD or undiagnosed versions of it, you know, like we're like squirrel. And so it's so easy to be like, that's working for that person. I need to try that. Or, like you said, like I maybe I should do this instead. Maybe I should do branding. Maybe I should and at the heart of it, like underneath all of that, is is is not a solid foundation, right? Like there's not a solid foundation of like, nope, this is where my focus is. And instead of just like sort of like feeling uh reactive to everything that because there's a lot of information, but instead of feeling reactive to all of this, I'm actually gonna double the hell down on it. And I'm gonna get really good at my systems and I'm gonna get really focused on what it is I actually really want and tune into that because like that's part of it, right? And if you're not really connected to your bigger sense of like, why are you doing this? It's gonna feel really easy to be. It's gonna be really easy to get burnt out. Like it's it's just a fast track to not loving it anymore. And so I feel like that's kind of the first step that before you even start to deal with all your marketing. You you gotta like start at the beginning there. Like, why am I really doing this? What is it really like doing for me? But also what is my contribution and impact on the world? Like, what is this part of my legacy that I'm leaving? And it's gotta be bigger than us, right? Because like there's a million ways to make money and there's a million ways to run a photography business. But if we're so like reactive to everything that we're seeing, it it's too easy to get distracted. So, what do you feel like really helped you root into that? Like you said, you were like, I'm not working with I'm not no one under nine, right? Like, so was that that first step for you? Is like just getting like hardcore clarity on what it is you didn't want so that you could kind of focus on what you do want?

SPEAKER_00: 20:53

Yeah, absolutely. Like weddings were great money, and uh, you know, but I just didn't enjoy them at all. It was stressful for me. I I didn't like I don't mind work, I like I'm a workaholic, but a day of the wedding exhausts me. Like I'm on the go and I can't eat because my stomach gets upset. I'm not drinking enough water, like I'm on the go. And in Wisconsin, we have this short window that you know, like right now it's like negative 23 degrees out, which actually is warmer than it was like two days ago, which is crazy record low, minus like 43 with the wind chill. But so everything in Wisconsin is done in like three months. So all your seniors, it's good because all the senior stuff is in in the summer, but also all your weddings and everything, like everyone like goes all out in the summer. Also, everyone is busy in the summer, they don't want their a weekend here, weekend there, like they're they're really busy. So I was killing myself in the in the summers, and weddings were part of that. Like I was I was photographing all week long, three seniors a day, and then shooting weddings on the weekends, and then editing all that stuff, and just would almost pray for a rain day where I can just get caught up in editing. And and so I just got to a point where I got burnt out and I'm like, I can't, I can't do this anymore, and I don't want to work weekends, weddings aren't enjoyable to me. So I'm gonna take a gamble and I'm going to just go all in and seniors. And I just started making a list, the old make a list, like what do I love to do? What do I hate to do? And it kept pointing back to high school seniors that I absolutely loved. Like I could tell my images were better because it, like you said, I was into it, like into the session, and I was like just feeding off the energy of the seniors. And my wedding images were good, but I just didn't have any any depth or soul to those images because I was there like like working. When I'm in a senior session, I'm I'm having a blast. I'm not working. So I made that list and then I refined that list. You know, I you know, we talk about like a lot of people talk about client avatars and well, who's your ideal client? So I teach a lot of that as well. And it's like, okay, not only is it high school senior, what does that senior look like? Where do they shop? What do they wear? Like what music do they listen to? Like really locking in on who that ideal client is, writing that out, having a picture, putting it on your screen. So every time you do marketing or you make a social media post, you have that person in mind. And I kind of stumbled upon that too because I kept getting the same kind of brand, the same type of senior, which was an athlete, but also um we could do some fun like athletic session, which is like hardcore athlete, but also really pretty in being a field with a flowy dress as well. And I love that because I was an athlete in high school and I just like love to incorporate that part, and I'm like really like incorporating other things with fashion as well. So I realized, hey, this is all my marketing, this is everything I'm putting out. So yeah, if I can really lock in on that and really lean into that, those are the kind of people that are going to come to me. So once I kind of came up with that and really defined my client, I think that's where it all really came into play. And then the other point I make with that is when someone would call for a wedding, it was really hard to say no, like no, I don't do weddings. But I use that as kind of like fire and to to really keep me going with the seniors because I knew when I hung up that phone or replied back to that email and said, No, I don't do weddings, I I lost anywhere from three to six thousand dollars, like just like that. And so it's like, how do I make that up in a senior session? And so I leaned in you know a lot with that. And and also when you looked at from when I looked at my business like a dollar per hour, like I would even gladly work a weekend for a senior, I do a three-hour shoot and get a three to six thousand dollar order. That's way better than a three to six thousand dollars wedding, which was included an engagement session, a 15, 12, 15-hour wedding, and then back in the day, like editing-wise, would would take a long time. You're basically about 40 hours with a wedding to make five to six thousand dollars when you know, three to five hours with a senior all in the same amount, like the basic math says. Yeah. And so I thought if I booked one or two seniors in that month, I more than made up. And I, you know, and and if I took that 40 hours that I would have spent on that wedding, put that into marketing to get those one or two seniors, that's was really easy to achieve. And uh, so that's how I reframed and really locked in on seniors.

SPEAKER_02: 25:50

Yeah, I think, yeah, it was kind of the same for me too. You know, just like everybody, I definitely tried a little bit of everything at first and quickly realized like absolutely did not want to work like photograph newborns. That's definitely that's not my lane. Um, and yeah, pretty early on, I I identified with seniors really, really early on because when I was getting my bachelor's in psychology, I was going to that's who I wanted to work with. I wanted to work with adolescents. And it was sort of like that natural like segue into it. But then I quickly realized just like most people do, is like, oh crap, I actually have to make money at this. Uh and I mean that was back in 2007. And you could say the same about like photographers just entering the game now, right? Like we've been in this game a long time. We've seen a lot of things change and shift. And, you know, every time if you remember, like every time a new iPhone would come out, people would freak out, like, oh my God, we know we're never gonna have any business. Like, and you know, I hear it constantly. I'm sure you hear it constantly, talking about like the three, six thousand, ten thousand dollar sales I've had for like seniors. And so many people were like, Yeah, that does, you know, it's on its way out. Like, you know, everybody can shoot on their phones now, blah, blah, blah. They're just they don't want it anymore. And I'm like, okay. Nice. You know, it it might be it's different. There's definitely different things for them to use and ensure, like, there's always a friend with a camera, right? But for me, that that's like like I said, doubling down even more about why would someone want this actual experience with me then? Because like we're doing way more than just like showing up in a field and see you later. I'll never, you know, I'm just gonna send you a flash drive, right? So that's that piece of the marketing. And I'm sure you hear about that, you hear, you know, those those types of things as well from photographers, especially maybe people who uh, you know, are in a smaller market, like kind of you know, small town. They don't feel like they have like, well, I don't have like rich people in my town. I'm like, well, most of my clients who spend three, four thousand dollars on an order are not what you would call rich people. They just value what we're doing in a different way. And so I want to talk to that piece just a minute because I know there are people who are gonna be listening who can identify with that, whether they are just starting out or been in business for a while and can't figure out how to do that, like how to shift into that. And I really believe it's a big mindset piece. Do you agree as well?

SPEAKER_00: 28:35

Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. And you you hit the nail on the head by saying it is is what they value, because in the Midwest, there's people who have money, but no one really shows it off. It's like we don't even have in, I'm in Green Bay, um, which is home to the Packers. And I only say that because uh sometimes, unless you've come to Green Bay, like you don't realize it's a small town. You think it's big because we have a football team, but if you really know the history, it's it's plopped in the middle of the country and there's homes all around it where people just have been there since the 70s. Like there's Lamo Field on my back door. People park in their in the they pay to park in their front yards, you know. And so it's a big city, but it's not a big city. We don't even have a Lexus dealership in town, you know. We don't have a high-end, we kind of have a high-end golf course, but there's there's there's not a lot of luxury in in in town. Now, having said that, people have a lot of money. There is old money, there is there's paper mill money, like people make a lot of money. You would never know it. So I never judge anyone that comes to me. That doesn't matter what you know, car they drive or whatever. And I've had people who I know they have a lot of money and and they normally aren't my biggest sales. And then I have other people who will appreciate and value the photography, and they might give up something like a vacation or and I feel bad sometimes. I remember once years ago, someone's like, I really want you to do my son's senior pictures, he's a wrestler, and and they ended up like not going to like one of the wrestling camps so that they could afford photos. I'm like, ah, that almost hurt, that really hurt me. Um, because you know, wrestling was his thing, but they also they wanted they wanted good photos of him wrestling, you know, as well, and that was important to them, so they made it work, you know. And I think sometimes we get caught up in like they have a bunch of money here. Right. Why aren't they people are spending with me? And you you go down this rabbit hole, and we've all done it, I've done it, you know, and you just can't do that. Like you said, you have to switch your mindset because I always say that my my superpower is me, your superpower is you. Like you're that's the no one else is you, and you can't compare yourself to other photographers because you go insane. Like, I'll look at other people's work, like, man, I suck, you know, or yeah, we all do that. Yeah, yeah, we all do that, right? And so we we can't do that, and we can't control that. We can't control what the person down the road is is charging, like you know, everywhere, every town doesn't matter if it's big, small, medium, a hundred people in the town, like there's always gonna be someone less expensive than you, and you can't do anything about that. And the more you worry about that, the more it stresses you out, the more you get in the bad mindset. So I just say, well, what can I do? Because that's the only thing I can control. And do I have to uh be a better photographer? Do I have to market better? Do I have to, you know, light better? Like, what are all the things I need to do? Do I need to get better with business? Like better communicating, you know, all these different things. That's what I can control. And when you start to take control of those things and put emphasis in that, then you'll start to see, like, oh yeah, this person showed up, had a great experience. Guess what? They're gonna tell five of their friends that are just like them, and and that's gonna spread as well. You know, then if you if you cut your prices, let's say you're like, I'm just gonna cut my prices, maybe I'll get more people. Well, then you're attracting the wrong clientele. Yeah. Because then they had a great experience, and then they're gonna tell five more people, and then if you double your prices, like, oh, now I'm too busy, now all of a sudden you it's it's kind of awkward.

SPEAKER_02: 32:23

Yeah, yeah. No, for sure. It's that slippery slope. And all of those different pieces, though, that you just mentioned too, it's it's like you said, like, do I need to be a better photographer? Do I need to learn more about systems? Do I need more automations? Do I need to up level my editing? Do I, you know what I mean? Like all there, there are a lot of different pieces to what we do. And they are all really important. And, you know, I'm also really big on telling people that like that's part of my why and my purpose is like I want people to really root into like who they are, like unapologetically. Like, you gotta be the most you that you can be. That's really all we have. And if you're constantly trying to emulate what other people are doing, first of all, your target clients are gonna like smell a fake a mile away, right? Like our teen clients are really savvy. And now we know, we know, we know just in general, and it's been like this for a while, but going forward, it's even gonna be more important. Is this this? I know the word authenticity gets thrown around a lot. It's a buzzword, but this like really being yourself, like not trying to put on all of these different things to attract the the wrong client, right? Rooting into what makes you you and using that in all your marketing, your copy, your SEO, all of that, and your images. Like that's another really big piece of it because like we're photographers, so most of the time that's gonna be the first piece of content someone sees and is like drawn into our universe. It's gonna be a photo in some way. We hope so anyway, right? And so, you know, that photo also has to be your stamp and be, you know, it has to like it, it has to resonate with those, with those right people. So there's all of these little different pieces, and it can feel very, very, very overwhelming, not just the marketing side of it, but I just feel like that's sort of like where it tends to show up because everybody's like, oh, I didn't want to be a content creator. And I totally get that. Like none of us signed up to be content creators. We signed up to be photographers for a reason, and now we're having to do all this stuff. And there's like a lot of different ways to do it too, right? Like SEO has become even more important again. I I I I thought it was always important, but like it fell out of like favor for a little bit. And now people are like, oh yeah, no, it's still important, especially with AI, right? Now there's AI and there's a whole other thing to be thinking about, and and all of these little different pieces, but that thing that you said specifically about I can't control any of that, right? Like at the end of the day, all you can do is control your actions and how you react to things, but like how are you running your show? How are you trying to connect with your target client and staying in your lane per se, right? But like I also think a big piece of that is being around like-minded people, right? Because it can feel so isolating like as a creative in general, uh left our own devices, they can, you know, we can go to a lot of like not great places in our heads, and like what they always say, like if you're in your head, you're dead, right? Like, get out of your head. So a good way to do that is to find that community. And one of the things that you do, you know, you're you are a photographer, but you're also an educator and have been for a long time. And when you put together the senior summit that is coming out like next week, what is your main goal in that? Because you do offer like there's shooting, there's lighting, there's editing, there like does is that sort of like how you you know, was that part of the original plan, right? Like, because you know it takes all these different pieces. And do you find that when photographers have access to like one summit with all of these different things, like the impact was some of the feedback you've gotten on these?

SPEAKER_00: 36:34

Yeah, no, the feedback's been great. And you know, I when I started teaching through PPA and we'd go to conventions, and like you said, you're around uh creative like-mind people. Then I started getting involved with with After Dark Education, which was an amazing um system of photographers. I call it like the misfit of photographers because it's just an ADD group of creatives, and it was just kind of a free-fall, but it was structured and it was just so much creativity and so much energy. And I was teaching there, but I grew so much just by being around other creatives, and we would each kind of have these little mini competitions and and push ourselves more and more to be better photographers, and then that folded, and it was like it was kind of nice because it was a lot of work, it was four times a year, and we didn't sleep for like three days when we when we were there. Uh, so for a while it was really nice, but then it got to be like, oh, I really miss that. And so I was like, you know what, what if I did something like virtually? And so that's where like the peak senior summit came along. I knew a lot of these photographers and say, hey, would you do this? Would you do this? Let's do something online. Let's, you know, it's not the same as in person, but you know, we can reach a lot of people and we can, you know, help raise the industry as a whole, you know. If you know, if we help educate everyone, maybe on marketing and business and stuff, it's instead of being like upset with them, like, well, they're not charging enough. It's like we all start from somewhere, you know, and the my path is different than someone else's path. And I had mentors that helped me and stuff, but with less and less in-person education, because a lot of these organizations just don't have the money anymore. Like when I started going, there was always a state convention, there was always a local convention, there was local meetings each month. There was um the state, or no, I said state already, but two state conventions a year, and then the national convention. So there's a lot of education and a lot of um people would help mentor you as you as you grew up through the process. And those a lot of those organizations just folded because there was no money, there wasn't enough people uh involved anymore. So you know, education just wasn't even out there. And I remember once I even had like an open house at my studio, and a bunch of photographers came and they were looking at albums and wall art and stuff. You're like, Oh my god, I've never seen this, and it looks so good in person. I'm like, I'm like, Oh yeah, you're right. Like you've never been to a convention, like you haven't walked through imaging where there's 15 labs, and it's like you see all these samples, they never even saw an album, and and then you can sell this, you can like people just don't want digital files, yeah. So all those things like all came together, and like, I'm gonna do an online summit, I'm gonna make it free if you show up live, otherwise, get the all access pass, and then you have the recordings, bonus items, things like that. And it's been really great feedback because a lot of people maybe just starting out uh who can't afford to even go to a convention. You know, there's still some one person conventions, but they're you know, they're expensive. Or a lot of people are doing this part time because they're not making enough money yet. So it's hard for them going to take maybe you know, three, four days of vacation to go somewhere on top of the expense of it. So you can do this, you know, from anywhere in the world, and you know, you can. Watch for free, or you can and have like lifetime access. Like you mentioned, there's there's everything from from shooting to marketing to lighting to business to SEO. Uh, I even have some team and volume stuff this year, so mixing a lot of that in there. There's 25 different programs and kind of circling back to what you said before with having ADHD and well, that looks fun, and that looks cool, and that looks cool. You know, if you're trying to take it all in, you're not gonna, it's gonna be too much for you. So I always say focus on one to two things that you need to implement right now, right away, and and focus on those programs in the summit. You can always, especially if you get the all X's passed, you can always then go back and be like, okay, I got my marketing locked in. Now I want to work on my pricing. So now I'll go back, watch the pricing, the one and two pricing things, focus, work on those things. Might take a month, a couple of weeks, however long it takes you. You have that locked in now. Let's work on lighting or something like that. So, you know, make make a list of three main things you want to work on, but start with one, kind of get that locked in before you go on to the next thing. I know it's yeah to do, but uh that's kind of my recommendation. Yeah. It all came together.

SPEAKER_02: 41:14

This is really good advice because we do feel like we have to like, you know, do all of it all at once and like, oh my God, especially if you're new, like that is really gonna be overwhelming if you try and tackle it. But I mean, like the all access is like what 147, I think, right? Yeah, yeah. It's so affordable. It's such a you know, like, yeah, I know it's an expense, but it's so affordable when you think about the going to a physical conference and what you're gonna spend on hotel and travel and the actual conference and all of those other pieces. Uh and and and also I find that I've also saw a lot of feedback from the people who went to imaging this year, for instance. They're like, it just, it just doesn't have, I don't know, something is is just not it's not doing it anymore. Like people have been going for years and years. There's something about the last year or two. So I don't think you're getting as deep, right, as you can, even when you do some of these larger conventions. And I think it's still good to go and see, like you said, like the products, especially if you're new and like really get your hands on some of these things. Uh, I still think it's very valuable. But this kind of virtual education is really impactful. And if you especially if you go in with it with that idea of like, I'm I'm going to, I always tell this to people too, like, you know, get the all excess capacity, you can come back to it. But then don't just leave it to your own devices. You know, put it on your calendar. Time block that, right? Like, okay, pick your top one or two, do that first, really implement it, see how it can like work for you, and then start adding stuff. But put that stuff on the calendar, like put your education, prioritize it on your calendar. Because if you don't left to your own devices nine times out of ten, you're literally just gonna forget about it. It's gonna, you know what I mean, sit somewhere on a drive and and you're not gonna, you're not gonna do it. So definitely hold yourself accountable if you do jump in to the peak senior summit because you know, it's just like anything else, you're gonna get out of it what you put in for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 43:18

Yeah, no, absolutely. And like you said, we're I'm not trying to replace in-person uh conferences. I still will go to in-person conferences. I I I love them, you know, I pick up a lot of things, but it is expensive. And even this year, I was like, should I go, should I not go? And I was like figuring it all out, but it's like, you know, if I get one nugget of information, you know, it'll be worth it. And like you said, 147 for the all access pass, you know, you're definitely gonna get one nugget of information from that. But yeah, you know, if you go in in-person or if you're doing the summit, I've always preached this for years too, that you know, implement it. And one thing I started doing years and years ago is like is putting it on the calendar, like like you mentioned. It's like, you know what? I'm gonna block off a day or two after the in-person event or now the summit and be like, I'm gonna go through my notes, or I'm gonna ask a senior, I'm gonna book a session already with a past senior, not really book a session, but ask him, hey, do you want to come in and do a fun creative shoot? I don't know what it's gonna be yet, but I know I'm gonna be inspired and I know I'm gonna learn some new lighting technique. So I might as well set that up right away because guess what happens when I get home? I'm gonna get busy and I'm gonna let it put it off, put it off, and then all of a sudden I'm gonna pick up my camera or pick up my notes and be like, what did they say again? Um, and that's the other good thing about the summit is you can pause, you can rewind, you can go back to it. A live event, I'm taking notes and I'm trying to remember everything, and then I'm overwhelmed. Like you get information overload, and then I I'm like, I look at my notes like, I don't what? I can't even read this, you know. So yeah, um, so that that was key with the summits revisiting, and something brand new. I'm super excited this year that I'm implementing is that I'm having two implementation calls after the summit. I used to do live training during the the during the summit, but it's like, you know what, you're getting so much information anyways. Let's give uh like a week break, and then we're gonna do I'm gonna do uh one week and then one the following week, and that's with the all access pass as well. So focus on those one to two things, and then I'm going to we'll all get back together. Everyone wants to show up, and we're gonna kind of go through like, okay, here's how you implement what you learn, and it's forcing you to show up. It's like setting that day, like I always do. I'm setting two days for you that you know, show up, it's on the calendar, you know, and and hopefully people will show up and then help them get even more out of the summit. Because what I have seen, people have told me in the past, like, oh, this is great, I bought it and I didn't watch it, and that crushes me. It's like, you know, like even last week I sent out an email, it's like it's cold, it's snowing, a lot of people are locked indoors, you know. Watch the summit from last year as you prepare for this summit, you know, things like that. Yeah, and so it's like, oh yeah, you're right. I didn't I didn't watch that, you know. I got busy and it's it's easy to do. So I even send out some emails periodically throughout the years like, Hey, you got that summit. Did you watch it? I'm trying to help you because I know how it is. Yeah, I've bought in courses, I've been there too. Like, I bought buy a course and like I didn't go through that. Or now I won't even buy a course if I don't have the time for it right away. Like you said, time block it out. Yeah, like I'm gonna buy a course on let's say social media, I'm like, okay, I want to make sure I can watch it, you know. For sure.

SPEAKER_02: 46:41

Yeah, no, I I those that's really good advice too. So any of you guys who are watching or listening, um take that advice, right? Like, so if you're gonna jump in and do it, like do the set it aside, you know, make sure that you hold yourself accountable. But having those sessions, that's a really great idea because I feel like that's definitely like a big piece of it. It's like the implementation of it. But if you just sign, you know, you know those are coming and you hop on, you have accountability buddies, you know, and there's a lot to just be said for like working next to other people, right? Like we do that a lot inside of my um my group that I have, you know, there's a there's like a handful of people that like they just need the accountability. So they just do it themselves. They're like, let's just sort of like hop on. We're not gonna really like talk, but we're gonna just work and just having like it's just shadowing that, you know, just just knowing someone else is next to you virtually across the world, working on something, it keeps you accountable to do it as well, you know, and you gotta you gotta do that, you gotta hack your brain, you gotta figure out what works for you and do it, right? And you know, take that piece of action.

SPEAKER_00: 47:48

Yeah, absolutely. And that's you know, something that that I started doing. And it's weird how that works because I just I just work alone. So either at the studio we're here, and it's nice, it's comfortable here. I can, you know, whatever. But I realized, like, you know what, every once in a while I I have now on the go, I have my laptop where I can plug into my big screens here, but I can take my laptop and I can go on the go. I can work remotely. I have I even picked up this, like a second little laptop monitor that so I have two monitors. I finally broke down and got that because I got so used to having all these monitors. So so I'll run to like you know, a coffee shop or something, and just like you said, having people around you, they're not photographers, they're not helping me at all. But it's like, man, I get so much done because you're around other people, it's the weirdest thing.

SPEAKER_02: 48:39

It's very interesting. I know. And and even just changing your environment, even just going there can be a big deal. Like my husband and I, tomorrow we have a date. We're gonna drop our dog off to get surgery, and then we're going to a coffee shop because he needs to get a bunch of writing done and I need to get a bunch of work done. And I've just, you know, it's just been a lot going on. I was like, why don't we just go? It's we have to drop him off super early, like 7 a.m. We'll just go to a coffee shop and work till lunch, you know. And he's like, Oh my God, I'm so glad you suggested that because I I have to get this done and I just don't feel like I can. So just being in a different environment can can be helpful. So yeah, another good tip. So thanks for sharing that. But I don't want to keep you forever. I definitely, you know, I'm glad that we were able to give people a little bit more insight to what they were gonna get with the summit too, because I feel like a lot of people are like, I don't know if it's gonna be useful. I I'm a part of a lot of these things, I gotta tell you. And I feel like, you know, this one is very, very well done and very intentional and curated, which is really nice. Like I'm talking about marketing to Gen Alpha, right? Like the future, what's coming, like, and a little bit of AI in there too, so that you can like make your life a little bit easier as well as stay on top of trends, right? Like, so I include like an AI uh tool for you to like stay on the trends so that you don't have to be doing all of this work or relying on so many people telling you, you can actually do this yourself. So empowering other people to like take action in their business and stay ahead of the curve on their marketing. Cause I mean, let's face it, if you don't market, you can't get clients to do all the fun things that we want to do as photographers with lighting and you know, the gear. So thanks for being here. I really appreciate your time and I'm excited to be a part of it this year again. So thanks for asking me.

SPEAKER_00: 50:29

Absolutely. Yeah, thanks for having me on this. It's it's it's great to be here. I appreciate it. And yeah, thanks for being a part of it. You didn't know anything about I don't think you knew anything about me. I just like every year I'm trying to get you know new speakers and and I kind of researched you out. I'm like, yeah, you're doing some great things, and I know you don't know me, but would you want to do it? And you came on last board last year on board and and crushed it. And I was like, Yeah, I want to have you back again this year. You're always ahead of the curve with stuff, and so yeah, thanks, thanks for being a part of it. It's great to have speakers, like new speakers every year, or like uh a couple new ones at least every year, like my friends that do it every year. I know they're gonna do it. And but then it's nice to have uh new people in different markets, and so thank you. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02: 51:16

Yeah, for sure. Okay, guys, I hope you're walking away with some really good stuff here and that it helps sort of like hopefully shift your mindset into what you want to focus on as opposed to what you don't want to focus on, as well as helping you kind of see what's out there for not just education, but what's kind of going on, you know, in this realm of senior photography. And, you know, Dan and I are both really passionate about helping you guys stay on top of things and really ground, you know, your business on a solid foundation so that you do feel a sense of purpose and you feel that it is a meaningful way for you not to just make money, but to to give back and to express your purpose. I love being a part of the Senior Peak Summit. And I think the Power Pack is a crazy awesome deal. So the link for that is gonna be below. Let me know if you guys have any questions about it, but it is live next week, February 3rd through 5th. And if you do the power pack, you also get a whole other set of educational content. So it's not like free stuff, it's like actual paid courses. And mine that I'm contributing to it is called the social reset. So it's uh it's a whole class of you know, social media marketing in this next wave. And the class that I'm teaching for for the Peak Senior Summit is all about future-proof marketing. So we're talking about what is coming in terms of Gen Alpha, how to stay connected, how to still, you know, market and do your senior teams even with this in mind, with this new client in mind, because they're different. They're not sharing, they're not doing things that they used to do. We have to be creative in the way that we market to them and how we run our senior businesses, to be honest, just across the board. But there's a ton of other great classes, so many great instructors. You guys are gonna get a lot of really good value from it. So I'll see you guys inside. Have a great rest of your week and stay grounded, stay regulated. Grab calibrate for free also while you can. Everything you guys need is in the show notes. Love you. Bye.