SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Welcome to Tried and True with the Dash of Woo, where we blend rock solid tips with a little bit of magic. I'm Renee Bowen, your host, life and business coach, and professional photographer. At your service, we are all about getting creative, diving into your business, and playing with manifestation over here. So are you ready to get inspired and have some fun? Let's dive in. Hey, hey, welcome back to Tried and True with the Dash of Woo. I'm your host, Renee Bowen. And this week I have another amazing guest for you guys, and I'll get to that in just a second. First, really quickly, I have two updates that my senior photographers are going to want to know about, as well as any creative who is looking for support right now. So, first of all, the creative team method, which is how I built my entire senior business to a six-figure profitable one, is on sale for 40% off, but only until February 22nd. This is a very in-depth meaty program. Okay. This is not just like a one-sheet PDF or even just like a two-module course. This is a deep dive because I do things a little bit differently with my team and I always have, which is why it was always successful. And yes, senior teams still work, but not the way that most people have been running them since the early 2000s. In the creative team method, I show you exactly how to do it, but I also give you other options so that you can make it your own. And I'm also going to be hosting a live Zoom with all members of the Creative Team Method. So when you join, you get access to that Zoom. And this is your chance to come and ask questions. And that's going to be on March 6th. This is the perfect time of year to be sourcing class of 2027. And it is pretty time-based. So if you've been on the fence about this, now's the time. And yes, if you grab it now, you absolutely can implement this by mid-March. There's so much marketing inside of it, not just about teams. It's well worth it. The link is below with the 40% coupon already applied. The other thing I want to mention is that I am sourcing interest right now for something called the Spring Senior Sprint. And this is going to be a six-week program marketing. I'm going to teach you how to get clients because a lot of you guys, senior photographers, are not booked. And you really need to be. Because if you're not booking now for summer, it's going to get really hard to do that the closer we get to summer. We would start this in March. And inside of it, you get access to the creative team method. And if you already own the creative team method, don't worry. You will get something of equal value that is just as amazing. But inside the sprint, you're going to get me for six weeks. It's going to be weekly calls for six weeks. We're going to have a group thread so that you can ask me questions throughout the entire process. And each call is going to start with a training and then also leave room for you guys to implement some things and actually put them into practice and ask your questions. Everything is going to live inside of a Google Drive folder so you can have access to it. You don't have to log into anything. And then you can just easily transfer all of that to your own drive. It is a fraction of what I normally charge for coaching. So if you've been wanting to coach with me and specifically need help with marketing, this is your chance to work with me in 2026. I am going to limit enrollment. So if you're interested, you need to reach out and let me know. The link is below for you to put your name on that list. But information about it is coming soon. And those of you guys who sign up are going to get that information first. Plus, there's a really cool bonus for the first 10 people who sign up. Now about today's guest. She is delightful, and you guys are going to love her. Her name is Holly Haynes, and she helps women build businesses that honor their time, values, and real life without the pressure of having to post every day or hustle 24-7. So she was a former Fortune 500 strategist and kind of a badass, let me tell you. And then she turned into an entrepreneur. So she grew her company while working full-time and raising her twins. So she's a fellow twin mom as well, basically retiring herself from corporate and her husband in under two years. Today she's the founder of the Antisocial School, a host of the Top 100 Crush the Rush podcast, and the creator of the Crus the Rush community and planner. She's got some really cool strategies and some passive income systems that she's going to talk to us about. She's helped thousands of women scale sustainably, ditch the scroll, and grow their businesses that support the life that they actually want. And she's just super fun to talk to. She's also a fellow human design nerd. So let's get into this awesome conversation I had with Holly. Hey, Holly, thank you for so much for being here today. I know that like we've connected online a little bit through the mix remind, but we're gonna get to a deeper topic that both of us feel really passionate about, um, which is how to create that thriving business without like giving your soul away, basically. And you've been able to do that. Your journeys are like really, really cool. I think your story is really interesting. You built a thriving business while working full-time. We both are twin moms, and so we have that in common as well. And that you've been able to somehow create this like level of structure that most entrepreneurs don't really understand how to do. So take us back if you can, maybe to the moment you realized you like weren't gonna do this in a traditional way or you were done doing it in a traditional way, and sort of like what led you to this next phase because you spent a lot of time in corporate.

SPEAKER_00: 5:54

Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. Okay, I have two moments that sort of led to this. And the first one was well, I like to say that I got my start in business sort of later in life. Uh, so I started my business in 2020. I was 41. I can't even do this. Like you get to the age and you're like, how old are you? I don't even know. Anyways, go back like, I don't know, 10 years. And I was in grad school and I was sitting in a finance class and feeling all proud of myself because like my company was paying for it. We're like on the right track, we're like doing all the things, like, you know, getting a promotion. And I remember in the class, uh, we had a guest speaker, and the guest speaker was Jenny from Jenny's Ice Cream. And I don't know, I think she's out in California. Um, she started in Columbus, Ohio, and it's like this craft ice cream that at the time was like very, very different. And so it's like strawberry buttermilk or whatever. Google it, it's very good. Anyway, she came to talk in the class, and she was talking about how her whole goal for running her company was to do more like community impact type work, which if you Google her now, that's what she's doing, which is really cool. And I remember sitting in class being like, I'm on the wrong path. Like I just had this moment and I was like, what am I doing? Like, what am I doing with my life? Like, I don't want to do like spreadsheets. And I just had this like moment, and I can remember sitting like the third row back and like the stadium seating, and I was just like, okay. At the time, I didn't know really what to do with it. So I sort of just like let it go. Just kind of it just was like simmering in the back. Uh, I since went on to I had to work a couple of years to pay back my grad school tuition. I then had twins, and so we're like, you know, in the in life. And I just kept thinking, like, I don't I don't know if I'm on the right path. Like I just had this like intuition. And I remember driving to work one day after I had my girls, and it was like super dark in the morning, and I was like, I don't know if I can do this for like the next 10 years. And that was the question that, like, if to summarize the story, like if you sit down and say, like, can I keep doing it? I don't mean like uh, you know, the big things, I mean like the day-to-day. Like, what does your day-to-day look like? Is this something that is sustainable for you for like the next 10 years? And I was like, this, this is not, this is not it. So that was like my second sign. I was like, I gotta, I have to do something different. But it's so hard to just like pivot out of that, especially when you have like a family and responsibilities. And so I was like, I'm just gonna try to make the most out of my corporate job. And I started leaning into women's leadership and mentoring. Because I was like, well, I don't know what I want to do with in terms of my job, but if I could at least like give back, like leaning into what Jenny had shared, then I'll start, maybe I'll feel better about my path. And at the time, like lean in had come out, and so I was like leading all these like women's networking groups and mentorships, and it felt really good. And I was like, huh, maybe I could do this for small businesses. And so it it just kind of like took its own path. So now we're in 2020. And I was like, well, I'll start a podcast because that sounds fun. Um, and at the time that the podcast came out, it was March. So it took me three months to get my act together. The first case of COVID hit the US the day that my podcast came out. I'm not kidding. And here I am, like recording in my basement in the dark. It's very different than it is today. And I'm like, I'm talking about time blocking and the world is like literally shutting down. Is this gonna like how is this going to work? Like, is this should I do it? Should I not do it? And long story short, I was like, okay, I'm just gonna be like really open and honest and share my journey. And it hit. Um, and so the podcast grew really fast, and then that turned into the product suite that we have today. But I think the way that I grew, kind of going back to your introduction and your question, was very different because I was working full time and I had to figure out a way to scale that most people probably weren't doing at the time.

SPEAKER_01: 9:57

That is so interesting, and timing is so interesting too.

SPEAKER_00: 10:00

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01: 10:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 10:03

Like these little signs that you get and you're just like, okay, I'm just gonna put it in my back pocket and come back to it.

SPEAKER_01: 10:09

But like, what if you wouldn't have started that podcast? You know what I mean? Like, what if you hadn't listened to that? And like you said, like you couldn't make this like major drastic burn your life down sort of thing, and like just, you know, quit your job with no plan because you had these responsibilities. But you were like, okay, well, what is something that I can do that is actually leading me to that direction? It's a small step, but it's on that path. And because you followed the breadcrumbs, it brought you to that. And it's like, I think that is such a powerful thing, just in general. So I don't want to like just gloss over it because it means you were listening, right? To your intuition. And you and I have talked about this privately about human design. We're both really into that. And you do also weave that into your businesses and you know, all the offers and things that you do. So I want to kind of break for a second and and just touch on it because neither one of us are like human design educators. So I don't want it to like go down that path. But how has learning about that in particular and listening to that intuition, living in like the alignment of your design, like helped you in all of these decisions in your business?

SPEAKER_00: 11:19

Well, it's interesting because in corporate, you do all kinds of like personality tests. I mean, you do like buyer's briggs, or I mean, I've done disk analysis, like hundreds of them, and none of them like really stuck. I was like, okay, I'm like an EFMTJ or whatever. Like, okay, great. And I was just like, well, I already know those things. Like, I want to know, like, why do I feel this way or why am I acting this way? And so for me, human design was just like, it just clicked for me, specifically the numbers. And so I'm a manifesting generator. And so it was helpful to understand that I make really quick decisions and I have a lot of ideas. And so the more that I researched that, the more that I was like, okay, it's okay to have a lot of ideas, but sometimes you have to remind yourself to pause. And so learning that just helps me make, I think, better business decisions. But I'm a two-four. And the thing that helped me probably like life-changing is I can't remember which one it is, a two or a four is the hermit. Yes, it's the two. I am as well. I'm a two-four as well, but I'm a generator. The hermit is like, I mean, my whole family knows about the two four now because they know like when mom gets like really stressed out, like she has to go upstairs, watch Gilmore Girls, don't bother her. And then in like an hour or two, I feel great, like so much better. And the same thing happens in business. Like, I'll go through a really like, I don't just call it a sprint or a launch. And then I know that like if I don't slow down, like I will burn out in a minute. And so I feel like that like can be applied to so many different things. But then I started running it on my clients. And so I was like, oh, well, she's a projector. And I know that she has to like really process things. And so when she's giving me this like glazed look of when I'm trying to share something, I know, like, okay, just give her a minute. She's gonna process it and then she's gonna come back. And so it's just been really fun to, I think, just like better understand myself and like how I make decisions. And then that's led to you know, different decisions for our family or our business.

SPEAKER_01: 13:19

Yeah, no, I agree. I I always tell people it's like another tool in your self-awareness to develop, you know? And so for me, I also like I love, especially with Manny Gens, I think that's a really big deal for manifesting generators, is when they start learning about their design, it makes it like okay. Like you said, like you were like, oh, that's the way I'm designed. I'm supposed to have like a lot of ideas and make quick decisions. And not all these ideas are really maybe mine, you know, like maybe maybe they're just coming up because I'm a visionary or whatever. And so it kind of like just gives you so much more context. And I agree, learning about being a 2-4 was huge for me because that piece of it, that too, the hermit, that's always been like a point of contention, also between my husband and I, because he is like a huge extrovert. He is he does not, you know what I mean? Like he does not require that downtime. And he he always not took it personally, but like maybe in the beginning of our marriage, we'd be being together a long time. So maybe in the beginning there was a little bit of that about that. But like as the years, you know, went on, because I didn't really get into human design until probably like 2020. And um I was like explaining that to him, and he was like, Oh my god, that makes so much sense. Like I already knew that, but like having that context and like knowing that about yourself, honoring it, and like keeping yourself in that alignment, it also teaches your kids, even passively, without you even trying to tell them like I'm gonna honor that about myself. And so it gives them permission, you know, to do the same. So I just think it's a cool just self-awareness tool, 100%. And like you said, with you know, using it with coaching students or clients like that, like it gives you more context. For me anyway, I know I love being able to, it kind of is almost like a cheat sheet.

SPEAKER_00: 15:18

Yeah, because I could read their reactions so much better. And that helps me. Like I like feedback, and so that helps me understand like, am I on the right track? Are they understanding like the message that I'm trying to get across? And even like with emails and content too, it just helps give me a perspective that people are consuming this differently.

SPEAKER_01: 15:37

Yes, I agree. So, all right, I coach a lot of creatives who genuinely believe, I think that you know, more visibility means constant content and like having to just keep up with this rat race that is social media, all the things, right? And the burnout from that belief is is also very real because like let's face it, like most people don't love being on there all the time. It's like a means to an end. So I kind of want to unpack that a little bit. So, first of all, why do you think you know, creatives, business owners, just in general, why do you think that we feel this pressure to perform on social just to stay relevant?

SPEAKER_00: 16:22

So any type of social media is designed for like an instant response. So to me, it's like, okay, I'm so busy, I'm trying to run this business, I'm working full-time. If I could just get a post out today, instantly I'm gonna feel like I did something. Where a better approach might be I'm gonna spend an hour or two writing a blog post, it's gonna last forever, it's gonna constantly bring in leads, but it might take me two or three days to get that done. And so it's kind of this like, I think people want like the quick win and they feel like it's the quick win. And sometimes it can be a quick win, but statistically, most of the time it's not. And so and I think it's designed that way. It's designed so you get a quick win and then you want more, but then like the next five reels you make take you way longer than you think, and it's not a quick win.

SPEAKER_01: 17:11

That's a really good point. You know, I feel like we've been kind of sold that as well, but like it's true, it hits the dopamine, you know, and I know exactly what spot I can't remember the name of it either, but I know what you're talking about. I actually just a side note, I just listened to Diary of a CEO podcast with that guy, Tristan. His name is Tristan, and he was the guy who tried to warn Google years ago about what would happen if we let social media just sort of like run amok and no one listened. And so now he's yeah, he's he's doing the same thing with AI and AGI and spot, and so it's a very interesting conversation.

SPEAKER_00: 17:50

I just remember the like owner or CEO of Pinterest was like, Yeah, my kids don't have a phone. Yep. And I'm like, Well, okay, great. I mean, my kids don't either, but it's just like, why? Like, I don't know, it's just a different perspective. But I think the other thing was social for me personally is when I was starting my business, I was working for the C-suite, and there were some things I just couldn't share. Like I couldn't post at 10 a.m. the ideal time on a Tuesday because what I was probably in a meeting and we didn't have like all the tools that we have now, but also like I had to be very cautious of like how I shared things and what that looked like. So I I really had to find a different way, but now it's really interesting because I have twin daughters who are 12 and social is such a big social and screen time is such a hot topic in our house. And so I was like, I don't want to build a business where I'm reliant on being on my phone or my laptop. Like, bottom line, I I did not leave my corporate job of like 20 years to just trade it in for let's sit on Zoom all day. Like I just exactly don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_01: 18:56

No, I totally, I can totally see that. And it's true, like, especially and it's really relevant, I think, because I've spoken to a lot of women lately who have kids in that age range. Mine are all grown, but that's a really big deal. And I think that a lot of women are deciding to step away from social media almost even entirely and sometimes entirely, because of that. And because they're like, well, if I'm on it, like how can I I want to practice what I preach basically with the kids. And so that's as a solo, you know, business owner and all that, it might seem really impossible, but you have a totally different perspective on that. So I want to dig into that. You have something called the antisocial strategy that you actually teach. So what does it really like feel like in practice for people? And why do you think that approach is really powerful?

SPEAKER_00: 19:47

Yeah, well, I mean, I I think my personal story is where it came from. Um, but it also can be taken two different ways. I say antisocial, but it's actually very social, just not on social media. So you can totally be offline and the strategy will work, or you could do kind of like a hybrid, which is what we do. And that is I'm not I don't really post on social real time, but I have so much content because I have a podcast that I'm just repurposing it. So, like at the time of this recording, I'm on like a posting break. Like I haven't posted in like three weeks, and I really don't plan to anytime in the near future. And that feels awesome to me. Like I know I don't have to. Uh, like sales still come in, and if I want to, it's for fun. And that's like the kind of relationship that I want to have with it. Uh, I try really hard to limit my time to 20 to 30 minutes a day on any social app. Like I have a timer on my phone, and that includes like, I mean, everyone scrolls or whatever. And so I try to limit my consumption and my creation of like reels and things like that. Because it's fun, but like it just takes a lot of time and the ROI for me is just not there. Um, so I always get to say, like, you get to choose your path, it's your business. But for us and what we teach is social media is a plan B. So it's like the sidecar, it's like the second act. If you have time for it, great. If you don't, no big deal, we move on. And so that's sort of our philosophy.

SPEAKER_01: 21:19

I love that. Okay, obviously, that will kind of look like a little bit different, you know, depending on who you're working with and kind of, I guess, the kind of business they have. And it could be tailored. But do you find so I want to talk about some of the results that you've seen people have with this sort of thing, like going from this model of like, oh, I have to be on social all the time to this different lens. What kind of things happen for them when they shift out of that? And I mean, I'm sure you've seen a lot of different stories. Maybe you can identify one or two that stick out on your mind.

SPEAKER_00: 21:49

Yeah. I mean, I think the first thing is kind of what we talked about at the beginning, and it's a mindset shift because this is not an overnight strategy. Yes, you can get results in a short amount of time, but this Isn't like a 24 hour fix. We try to get you a win as like fast as we can, but this is like a strategy that's gonna last like five, 10, 15 years from now. So it's really important to me to, I mean, without going into the whole model, like make sure that you're messaging on point, you know who your audience is, sort of all of that stuff. But also, like, where do you like to hang out? So if you're not hanging out on social, like where is that for you? Is it Pinterest? Is it blogs? Is it, are you obsessed with email? I am obsessed with email. I send like three to five emails a week and people know that about me. Like they're like, Holly's gonna recommend sending an email. Um, but it works for us. And but if you like hate writing, I wouldn't recommend that for you. And so I think what's different about it is it's super customized and it's really making you slow down to speed up, to say, like, okay, if I'm not on social, like, are people Googling me? Are they chat GPTing me? Like, that's a new thing that's happened where people are asking chat GPT, like, what photographer should I hire in my local area? So, are you creating content that can feed into chat GPT? And so there's a couple of stories that I will tell. One, I would say, like in 2026, like if you don't have a blog as a creative where you're doing case studies, and I'm talking like going into really deep detail of like a specific example or like how you shoot, what makes you different, a case study of a client that you did and like how they used your photos or like what they did with them. So people can read the blog and be like, oh wow, that's that's exactly what I want. Um, but also it's gonna start getting picked up by so many more SEO tools than like ever existed ever before. So I kind of went sideways. But a couple of things that you could do if you're not on social. We actually just finished a launch. We did an open house, and it was a three-day sort of get to know us, meet our team, we help you map out your 2026. Uh, and then if you want to join us, you can. None of it was on social. I mean, I think I did one carousel post of like, here's what our program is, but everything else happened behind the scenes. And so it's sort of looking at this like human touch of like if someone was gonna hire you and make a decision, like what would they need to see? And what's like a different way of delivering that? So that's one way. Um, another way, which I think you would probably relate to, Renee, is like a very local strategy. And this is more probably what you might see from like a PR agency, but can you go on your local news and share like what you do and how you do it? Is there a local magazine? Like we have a magazine in Columbus, Ohio called the Scout Guide, and it is like the best of the best of Columbus. And people think you like get picked to put in there. No, you pay. And I'm not there's other non-paid ways. Um, but like really thinking about can you host an in-person open house? Like, I have a friend who is a photographer and she has a studio. She opened her studio and she had like five different businesses also come in. And then, you know, everyone gets to know each other, invites their clients. You're like swapping. There's like all kinds of really creative things that you can do. And I feel like those creative things feel so much more aligned and fun and human than I just spent an hour on a reel and got 17 likes. Um, and it is very custom, but I mean, we've had clients on the Food Network, on the Today Show. Um, we've had clients that have been like on their local news. We've had clients do open houses, we've had clients do really simple lead magnet swaps and get the results that they want. And so I the method is like slow down and think about where are your people hanging out at a high level.

SPEAKER_01: 25:44

Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that in-person piece up. Uh, I mean, that's basically how I started my business. Like that, that's how my photography business really took off. I mean, yes, it was the early days of Facebook. So, like back then, like in 2008, when you would post on Facebook, like everybody would see your post, right? It's like nothing like it is today. And so there was a piece of it for me for social, for especially like my seniors, that definitely helped, you know, get traction. But what really built my business is these in-person connections with other local businesses and doing that, I would just call it cross-marketing back then, right? Like that's basically what it was. It was like, okay, well, who do I know who already has this audience? And how can I help them, you know, expand as well? How can I help them? I'm a photographer, I can definitely help them with images and you know, like looking at different ways we can get in that. And that's still one of the things that I teach to photographers now because there are so many photographers in particular who are like, but no one is seeing my post. And I'm like, are you putting all your eggs in one basket? Like, are is that your whole marketing strategy? Is social media? Because it shouldn't be. Yeah, general. I will live and die on the SEO blog hill, like you.

SPEAKER_00: 27:03

I say it like every week to my clients. I'm like, please write this, please.

SPEAKER_01: 27:08

My God, write a blog. Like that is yours, first of all. You own it, but also it's it's evergreen. Yes, you can update it as you need to, but that is ongoing evergreen SEO content. And that is like a huge core piece of it. We went through this period of time, I feel like, in the last few years. Like, I we're definitely seeing more of us talking about it again, I feel like, but like I think we went through a period of time where people are like, oh, no one's reading blogs. I'm like, I that's not the point. That is not the point.

SPEAKER_00: 27:40

Yeah, we don't even have our blogs like listed on our website. Like they're just behind the scenes. They just like are a little the little engine that could yes.

SPEAKER_01: 27:48

Okay, so what I wanted to ask you in that area of of writing and blogging, and what do we think about Substack? Because Substack has been the buzz, right? Especially like in our like online digital case. A lot of people are talking about Substack and how it is like the place to be right now because we're in the early days of adoption of it, like where there's not as much context. You do have that ability to get in front of people more organically, then let's say in six months it's gonna look different, right? Because everybody's doing that. But I do think that that it's a very interesting concept. I still feel like it's gonna take me 12 years to learn this damn platform, and I don't know why. Like I log in and I'm like, why do I feel so stupid? Because I have been on social media, like on every platform since the early days of everything, and I'm very techie, but for some reason I can't wrap my head around it. But I want to, and I feel like there is something there, especially if you do like to write, like you said.

unknown: 28:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 28:46

Are you what are you seeing with this? Like, do you still suggest maybe, you know, obviously your blog is your blog and it should always be there. But are we repurposing some blogs to Substack? Like, how do we Yeah?

SPEAKER_00: 28:56

So I will say I have mixed feelings on Substack. I think if you're a writer and you like to write, it's there's a great opportunity, but I do think there are social media components inside Substack because you have to follow people and recommend people, and that's how you get seen. And to me, that doesn't feel like a blog does. Our whole antisocial strategy is to pick one piece of long form content. So it could be a blog or it could be a podcast. Those are usually the two most popular, and this is like so basic. But then we come up with a repurposing strategy that makes sense for you. So if you do like to write, maybe we do try Substack, maybe we try YouTube. And these are places where you can schedule your content, you can control your content, um, you have more ownership of your content. Although I think it once you post it on those platforms, you don't, but you have it on your website. Um, and so we come up with a repurposing strategy. And so I think right now our podcast goes to like 17 different places. And I it didn't start out that way, but that's one of the things that I will teach is okay, if you have this like really awesome piece of content, let's say it's a blog post, like are there two or three different places that we could share it? Can we share it to our email list? Can we share it on like a YouTube short? Or and these are things that you can schedule, you own your own time, you own your own, you know, when you're gonna do it. And so it takes the pressure off, but also really good content always wins. Like always. If you're sending excellent emails and your website is like, wow, this is so me, like that's gonna win over a social media post anytime. So I love repurposing. I think I don't know. I've Substack does feel overwhelming to me. We've had an expert in our programs teach Substack, and I do think if you are doing Substack, you have to go all in to be successful. I don't think it's something you could just be like dabbling in, unless you're like me and you just like subscribe to people you want to read about.

SPEAKER_01: 31:05

Yeah, so I don't months ago I signed up just, you know, just to kind of sign up, just to kind of play with it, to read, like you said, mostly. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I saw the thing where you can kind of hook your podcast up. So I hooked my podcast up, like the RSS feed. And I was like, well, that's interesting. I'm not really sure why, but okay, let's see. And so that's that's kind of the only content that I have populated up there right now. And so I'm just at this place where I'm like, hey, do I want to do this? Like my my in my generator, you know, I'm asking myself, like, is this a yes or a no for me? Like, really? And it has always been up until now, uh, mm-mm, no, because capacity. Like, I just don't really have the capacity for it. It feels like a lot, and I don't want to add more stuff. Like, I'm just so done adding more shit to my plate. Yeah. And I'm trying to like cleanse. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna put that aside for now, maybe just kind of autopilot see. And so now that I'm going into like a little bit of a slower season, late December, early January, I plan to reevaluate that and say, you know, like make a more executive decision on that. I based on like what I want that to look like. But I really don't see myself being able to create, like, I'm deciding right now, do I want to take like the podcast and the blog? So I always do a blog for the podcast as well. So I do take that and then just sort of like repurpose it onto Substack. Like that feels that feels sort of like low lift and easy to do. So I'm probably gonna start there, but I feel like the thing that Substack that people, the thing that they like the most, at least now, and I think it's gonna change, yeah, is that it's a place for you to actually really just kind of write about what you're feeling. Yeah, that's something I haven't really done yet, but I think that it kind of feels a little fun because I really feel like a writer at heart. I always have been like you. Like, you know, I don't send as many emails as you do, but like I can see myself sending that many, you know. Um, because I do like to write, but let's talk a little bit about this AI aspect, right? Because it brings like a whole other, you know, something else to the game here. And I feel like I've already seen it with Substack. Like at first, it was like, and I think there's still a lot of people still just writing on their own, but I can already tell like people are using AI to like just generate, generate, generate, generate. It's like, yeah, okay, when do we get off this goddamn content machine, right?

SPEAKER_00: 33:29

It is a content machine. So I always say the goal is to not repost, but to truly repurpose because different platforms like different things. And so the first platform that you want to share content on is your own. So blog, email, your home base, whatever that looks like for you. And then I pick like one or two and that's it. And I go like all in on it. Like I'm gonna write in the substack format. So that would be I'm gonna add feelings and I'm gonna add um more personal stories, or I'm gonna do a YouTube video. But instead of just like doing the whole thing, I'm gonna have like a different intro or I'm gonna have a different outro and my show notes are gonna be different because YouTube prioritizes. And so when I talk about repurposing, I think it's important like there are some platforms where I just repurpose it, but that's not my like main one, right? But there are others, like for us, it's YouTube right now where it looks a little bit different. I am repurposing it, so it takes less time, but I'm intentional about how I'm repurposing it. Um, and we do use AI to do that, but here's the trick with I think with AI. And ironically, I was just on a podcast about AI yesterday. Um, you have to train it and it takes time to do that. So you can't like open chat GPT and be like repurpose this to Substack. Like, you have to really think about who's my audience on Substack. What words do I want to use? Like, do I want to use the dash or not? Do I want emojis? Um, and you have to like again, like really slow down to speed up. And so I think that's where our antisocial strategy is a little bit different. It's it's not a volume play, it's more of what can we do really, really well? So it's attracting the right clients.

SPEAKER_01: 35:22

Yeah, it's honing in. And like that, I mean, that works. And I feel like it's so easy to forget that. So easy to forget, like because we feel like we do have to be everywhere, everywhere all at once. And I love that reminder that yeah, you can still have stuff like automated and sent to different places, but that's not the main goal, right? Like that's just like the extra stuff. But okay, what are like the two or three platforms that I'm really, really focusing on? Because whatever you focus on is gonna grow. That's just way that's yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 35:55

And I'll say the number one platform for me is speaking, like speaking to real people. So it's like, okay, I'm gonna speak on this podcast, or I'm in a networking group and we're gonna do a lead magnet swap. Like those have been the simplest ways that I have grown the most this year. And I people always want this like fancy answer. And I'm like, no, like it's just sharing what you do and like with real humans, but be super intentional about it. But also when you share what you do, like have it go somewhere where you can continue to nurture them. So there needs to be something behind what you're sharing.

SPEAKER_01: 36:32

100%, yeah, for sure. And that point definitely can't be just sort of like glossed over. So that is a really big piece of it. But I think that that's a two-four thing. That's the four. That's the four line. Yeah, it's the community. 100%. Like that's because it's the same for me. Like I I really like when if I speak in person, especially, like if I'm speaking like at an event, I get so much more um just engagement in general. Like I don't know, there's something to it, but podcasts as well, going into other people's communities have all been like really, really great for me. So just like another nod to uh our human design. But yeah, and I agree with the AI. I think that like for me, uh I teach people and the way that I use it, like, yes, you have to train it for sure, because at the end of the day, it is a mirror of you. Like you you kind of want it to like have that nuance of who you are so that it could help you be better, more, more you know, efficient. And so that's the way that I sort of look at it as like a collaborator to help me do what I want to do better and faster more efficiently. Um and I think that there's definitely, you know, we can create GPTs, we can create all these different things that help us do those things better. But at the end of the day, that piece that you just said, that core messaging of like that backbone of you cannot be dismissed. Like that is a really, really big piece of it, like staying human, but also staying like the most you that you can be in the messaging so that that doesn't go away. That's a really big piece of it. Because I think it's really easy to just sort of like automate and automate and automate. And then where's your voice? You know what I mean? Like that that that's a like a really, a really big yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 38:26

Yeah. I also think too, like, let's pretend that you like to speak and so you're gonna talk on a couple of podcasts. Unless you have someplace for people to go and hang out and learn more that's gonna do some of the heavy lifting for you, you're not gonna get like the bang for your buck for the effort that you're putting in. And I think so many people are being like, well, I went and talked here or I did this, but like they don't have it set up behind the scenes where the person listening can be like, oh, now I know who Holly is. And oh gosh, she just sent me this cool email. And oh, I had no idea she did this. Like, there needs to be a system behind all this content that you're putting out there to nurture them, which then eventually will turn into sales.

SPEAKER_01: 39:09

For sure. That's definitely something that's on my list of refining. I have like obviously I have the podcast and I have like all of these different things, but I've just felt like I've had way too many things, you know, and I'm not a manny gen, I'm a generator. Like, what's my excuse? Um, so I'm like in that process of pruning and like getting more specific. So this was a very timely conversation for me too. So thank you for that reminder. But um, I wanted to ask real quick too, because you you've seen this in real time with so many different people, like identity becomes like a very big piece of this, right? Like we we get wrapped up into like this identity of maybe who we are and social or or whatever, like this this thing about being perceived. So, what are some like identity shifts that you've seen either yourself, your clients, people in your universe go through when they finally step out of like this hustle mode? Because again, that's kind of what we're talking about. Is like you don't need to kill yourself here. So going out of hustle mode into this structure that you're teaching, what have you seen? Some of those identity shifts, you know, how how is that people?

SPEAKER_00: 40:15

So again, I think it, I don't know. I'll go back to a personal story, and that is like I am a workaholic. I love to work, I have lots of ideas. Like I could just sit and just I don't know, it just feels good to me, but also I overdo it. Like I have a like once I get the ball rolling, I have a really hard time stopping. So when I tell people, hey, you actually don't have to post 17 times a day, and I would rather you just spend one hour writing a blog post, which is a super simple example, it feels awkward and weird. And they're like, no, this isn't gonna work. And so my biggest piece of advice is like, give yourself 30 days. Like you have to stick to it because you'll write a blog post and it may take 30 or 60 days for it to like start gaining traction. Where if you post something, like I said, it might hit, it might not, but this blog post is gonna live on for a really long time, or this podcast interview is gonna live on for a really long time. Or if you went to coffee with like a local creative, that conversation is gonna live on for a really long time and they're gonna introduce you to someone else three months from now, and you're you're just not gonna see it right away. And so the thing that I always say is you can control your actions, you can't control your outcome. So, like if I could say, okay, I'm gonna do two podcasts a month, I'm gonna do one blog post, and I'm gonna actually did this one year. I'm gonna try to have one in-person meeting with an entrepreneur every week for three months. It was a very like out there goal. But I didn't know it was gonna happen out of it. It actually was really fun. And I met a cool ton of cool people and you know, it was it was neat, but it was like it just those are the things that you I would track instead of how many people liked my social posts. So it's it's like a shift in how you're thinking about things, but also I always tell my clients, like, what's one thing that you would love to do with that time? So if it takes you, you know, two less hours a week, like what's one thing that you would love to do with that time and put it on your calendar. Like, okay, I want to go on a walk. I want to go look at a house, I want to, I don't know, whatever the thing is. And hopefully that will give you some like instant feedback because that's what we want, right? Like we want the instant feedback, and so it's just gonna feel different than posting.

SPEAKER_01: 42:42

Oh, for sure. That's really good advice. Yeah. And I feel like because we live in such a world of instant gratification because of social media, like, you know, our attention spans are like seven seconds long. That's yeah, sort of baked into us by now. It's like, well, I should have seen results by now. Well, really? Not probably not. Like, did you give yourself enough time and look at the actual data? That's another thing just entirely. Like a lot of people don't even do that in general. So that that piece of it, and looking at, okay, well, where are people really finding me to? And at the heart of it, what really lights you up? Like it, there's there's gotta be that piece of it because if it doesn't feel good, if it doesn't feel safe enough for your nervous system, you're not gonna be like I think the data piece is really interesting.

SPEAKER_00: 43:29

And that I track our data every month. Like we have a scorecard and we're like, okay, where did our where did our clients come from? Data leaves clues, right? The breadcrumbs. And last the last two months, most of our clients came from either the podcast, SEO, or chat GPT. And I was like, okay, well, this just proves that no one is paying attention to my social, or it's just like my friends, which is great. I love that. Like we're just connecting, which is what social was supposed to be. Um, but I have other clients and they're like, oh, they're finding me through. Like a referral, or they're refining me. And so I think going back and looking and just remembering to look is like a really easy step because that's super repeatable. And the data will tell you like, okay, if your last three people came from referrals, well, what can you do like right now to just re-engage your list and reach out to people and let them know like what you have going on?

SPEAKER_01: 44:21

Absolutely. I hear that a lot, that complaint from a lot of people in my world, just because, like, as a high school senior photographer, right? Like we're talking to teenagers. And so, yeah, your the parents are the ones who are like buying, let's say they're they're the ones paying for this experience. But more often than not, it's the teenagers who are actually like they're calling the shots. Like the parents are letting them decide who is going to be the photographer. Are they like this person's style? They want to do this, right? And so they're letting the teenager really take the lead on a lot of that stuff. So over the last few years, specifically, one of the main things that I have been kind of harping on with those, that you know, little niche in and of itself in particular, is that, you know, you kind of have to be where those teenagers are. If you are wanting to find them, if you want them to find you, yeah, in person is a very, very big piece of it for those types of photographers because referrals, right? Like you're you're a higher-end service, you're charging more for an experience. It's not just like a turn and burn, like, I'll take a few pictures of you at a park kind of thing. This is like, no, you're gonna get wall art, it's gonna be an experience. We got hair and makeup, we're gonna do this whole like fun thing for you. That is very higher end. And so by design, it does tend to be a referral-based thing, right? Like people talk about that within their circles about like, oh, I love this, and let me tell other people about it. But more and more and more now they are being found. Like, I get a lot of my clients from TikTok and Instagram, my high school seniors, like they find me on those platforms, and then they'll go to my website, then they'll go down the rabbit hole, then they'll go read my blogs, that kind of stuff. And so for that particular niche, I feel like there isn't a whole lot of getting around that piece of it, but yeah, there is a way to do it without it taking all your time and sucking all your energy. And truly, that's like what it comes down to. And so I love that piece of like all right, focusing and honing in on like one or two main platforms and then automating the rest kind of thing and taking that off your plate. But I always still tell them start with a blog. Start with the blog.

SPEAKER_00: 46:37

Yeah, because in this scenario, if you have a piece of long-form content, it's gonna be so much easier to repurpose it into a TikTok, into an Instagram post. You're not gonna spend hours thinking about content. And then of course, there's tools that will help you like break it into different, you know, ways of doing it. And so I I think coming up with a strategy of okay, well, how am I gonna create this content where my people hang out is really the antisocial method because you're we're not winging it. Like we're there's no winging allowed. Yeah, like that's very intentional. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 47:15

Yes. Okay, yeah, perfect. All right. So, where can people find out more about the antisocial method and all the other things that you teach?

SPEAKER_00: 47:23

Yeah. So it's really custom if you haven't um caught on to that. And I think that's what makes it different. So we have a free workshop and private podcast because I know you're busy. You can listen to it. It's hollymariehaynes.com forward slash workshop. Um, and it will walk you through how to create your own antisocial method, whatever that looks like for you. Uh, and then you can also find me on the Crush the Rush podcast. So we have two, we have almost 600 episodes. So I'm pretty sure that we will be able to answer one of your questions about content and strategy.

SPEAKER_01: 47:56

Perfect. Okay, I will put all that in the show notes, obviously. And uh thank you so much for being here. And you guys definitely go go uh hang out with Holly because she's just she's awesome and fun to listen to and watch on YouTube.

SPEAKER_00: 48:09

Yeah, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01: 48:11

I can't wait to hear what you guys are walking away with after this awesome conversation with Holly. And if your business is feeling heavy, remember that's not a personal flaw. It's just like a system, basically, that was never built for your energy and it can be rebuilt. Holly is a great example, and we talked a lot about the different ways that you can do that. You just really need a strategy that feels like you, and also some boundaries that work for you, and permission to design a business around your life instead of the algorithm. A lot of our messaging is super aligned, especially when it comes down to building that business that feels like you and around your life. Because most of us, women especially, have been sold this idea that we have to push ourselves beyond our limits. And we really need to honor our own internal cycles. So remember, you can build your dream business around your life and your family. In fact, you should. I'm really big on if it's not a hell yes, it's a no. And so hopefully, today's conversation with Holly really kind of made you dig a little bit deeper into your own systems and your strategies and that you were able to sort of like pull back and get that 30,000-foot view. Because if something's not working, don't keep trying to force it. Maybe it's time for a different approach. And if you're struggling with that, obviously reach out. I do have one opening for one-on-one coaching right now. But again, if you're a senior photographer, the two programs I mentioned in the beginning, specifically the senior sprint, could be absolutely perfect for you. All the info on that, as well as Holly's links are below in the show notes. And I would love to continue this conversation with you guys over on social. So hit me up in the DMs and let me know what you thought about today's episode. I'll see you next time. Have a great week. Love ya. Bye.