SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Hey, hey, welcome back to Tried and True with the Dash of Wu. I have a really awesome guest for you guys today, but very, very quickly I'm going to just share a couple of housekeeping things for the photographers in my community because I have something really, really cool, specifically for the senior photographers. And I want to make sure you know about it because it is capped at 20 people. So I put something together called the Spring Senior Sprint. And we start in March, and it is six weeks of me coaching you through a marketing sprint, essentially, to get more business, to book more clients, but to do it in a very strategic, intentional way. A lot of you guys are having issues with your marketing. A lot of you guys do not have enough clients. And it's not because you're not talented, and it's not because you even lack the knowledge for some of this, right? So I wanted to put together something that was going to address exactly what was needed. You can find all the information below. I'm not going to go into all the details of it now because it's a lot, but everything is at the link below. It's the top link in the show notes. That page is going to walk you through everything that's included. I'm also including the creative team method inside of this as well. So even if you don't want to run a team, you can still use it for a lot of the marketing information that I have embedded inside of that program. And just as a side note, if you don't want to do the sprint or you can't do the sprint, the creative team method is on sale right now for 40% off, just only through February 22nd, though. So the sprint's going to start in March. Our first call is going to start March 5th. Deadline to sign up is March 3rd. I'm only accepting 20 senior photographers into the program. And yes, you are going to have access to me in a group thread so that you can ask daily questions and get support even between the calls. And all the calls are going to be structured in a way that is going to make sense for you. I'm going to teach you. There's going to be a training. And yes, you do get access to the replays. So if you are a high school senior photographer and you know you need help, but you can't jump into one-on-one with me because my one-on-one coaching is a higher investment. I totally get that. This is your chance to get real focused marketing help. All right, let's jump into today's show with my guest. You're going to love Sam Burmeister. Welcome to Tried and True with the Dash of Woo, where we blend rock solid tips with a little bit of magic. I'm Renee Bowen, your host, life and business coach, and professional photographer. At your service, we are all about getting creative, diving in your business, and playing with manifestation over here. So are you ready to get inspired and have some fun? Let's dive in. So my guest today is Samantha Burmeister, and she is the lead copywriter at Nomad Copy Agency. She is an expert in writing words that make you money. Every business that she writes for gets copy that sounds like them, but converts better. So we're going to be talking a lot about sales psychology and what's working, what's not working, and what you should be doing about it in all your sales copy moving into 2026 and beyond. Every creative business owner needs to listen to this conversation. So let's get into it. Hey Sam, thanks for being here today. I'm very excited about this conversation because I feel like we dance around it in my communities a lot about how we can combine, you know, real strategy with psychology, modern marketing, and this whole, this whole copywriting thing gets away from a lot of us for some reason. Like that's one of the things that I hear a lot from my creatives in my communities, is like they're like, I just don't even know what to say and how to say it. And, you know, you have all of these different viewpoints of like what it should be. So I'm very excited to jump into your brain because this is what you know you specialize in. But I want to start with what even drew you to this world of like sales copy? When did you realize like the old formulas weren't really working anymore?

SPEAKER_01: 3:49

So my career when I graduated college was in sales. I have degrees in marketing, international business, and French, which means I had a whole lot of student loans. So when I looked at the little pamphlet at the college of business and it was like careers from the college of business and average salaries, it was like sales was always at the top. And I was like, great, that's what I'm gonna do is either a sales job or a marketing job. Um, so I went into sales and actually really enjoyed it. I was in tech sales, I was in tech hardware, tech software, and tech research sales um for about 10 years. And during that time, I had a travel blog that was called Nine to Five Nomad. I just took it down finally after like six years of not updating it. I was finally like, nope, it's over. The ship has sailed. Um, but it's called Nine to Five Nomad, and it was teaching working women how to get the most out of their PTO. So I was writing, not for sales, and I was doing sales as my career. And when I finally quit my job, I didn't have a plan. I just had some runway money and figured I would travel for a bit and go find another sales job. And when I started reaching out to people, being like, hey, I'm a free agent. I'm like almost bored. I want to put some structure to my travels. Do you have any gigs for me? And I figured it would be like VA type work, but every person that I asked said, Hey, can you write this for me? And I was like, wow, that was a blind spot that I mean, it was a blind spot. I didn't see it. So people saw this intersection of I know Sam's a really great writer and I know she's really good in sales. What if she wrote a sales page for me, a website for me, whatever? And so I started, I started it that way. So it was intentionally unintentional, I guess you could say. Yeah, but then I started to refine my craft, and you know, that's been over the last seven years.

SPEAKER_00: 5:35

Yeah, and you've been able to, and nomad copy, like that's that's your whole deal. Like you travel is still a really big part of your life. That's all.

SPEAKER_01: 5:44

Yeah. When I started my business, uh, I was gonna say side hustle, but it's definitely very much a business now. Um, but when I started, I was traveling full-time until 2020. Um, obviously did what I called slow matting during that time in 2021. And then uh during that phase, I also met my partner and he has a stationary job. So now I still travel, but about five months out of the year.

SPEAKER_00: 6:11

That's still that's still good, though. Like it's still a lot. Yeah. That's still pretty awesome. I'd that you're living that life that, you know, I'm now that my kids are grown, you know, my husband and I always talked about that. We kind of had our kids a little bit younger, and we were like, oh, well, that just means that once they're grown, we can like go and do this. So that's kind of what we've been trying to prioritize over the last few years, because I did not do enough traveling when I was younger at all. So I love that you were able to integrate all of that into your life and and your work and make it work for you. And again, like that story is so common with a lot of creatives just in general, like the kind of like following those breadcrumbs and just falling into, you know, a side hustle quote now career. So what do you think? Like, I talk a lot about the unconscious mind, like how people actually make decisions, like all that kind of stuff is like super fascinating to me. So, from your perspective and like what you do and all the data that you see about how today's buyer like really behaves and like what is really kind of shifting. Have you seen any major shifts that you can tell us about?

SPEAKER_01: 7:19

I think the really obvious one is the trust recession. We've seen a lot of dialogue about that recently. But what I think is unique here is there's like the internal trust recession and the external trust recession. And we're talking on a global scale about the, or on a macro scale at least, about the external trust recession, that buyer behavior is slower. It's not that people are buying less, it's that they're taking longer to buy. And when we go back to the data from 20 years ago, it was that you need eight touches for somebody to buy. And then in the digital age, that became like 80. So, our question for ourselves now as marketers is not how do we get more touches in, but how do we make them more potent touches? And I think that's huge for creatives, where we get to do things like educating our audience versus telling our audience. And we get to shrink that timeline a little bit. We get to show up on social media, we get to show our faces, we get to have video, we get to have personality in our copy, and we shrink that because when people trust less, they want humanity. They want a person to hold their hand. Like, especially post-2020, we've gotten away from doing in-person business, even for businesses that are historically in person. Like I used to go visit my accountant and now I don't.

SPEAKER_00: 8:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 8:37

And it's great for efficiency, it's not great for trust. That's not to say I don't trust her. It's to say that I could see where somebody who's hiring somebody to touch their money would take a little bit longer and do some more vetting before they hire her. So there's external trust and then there's internal trust. And as a marketer, I can confidently say that a lot of marketing hinges on not trusting yourself. You don't trust yourself to work out the right way. So you hire a personal trainer. You don't trust yourself to whatever, but it's the marketers who are instilling that lack of confidence and they're relying on that lack of confidence for you to buy something. And so we're internalizing that. And again, taking longer to buy, but it's that internal lack of trust that actually convinces us to buy is because then we're outsourcing that trust to somebody else.

SPEAKER_00: 9:27

Right. So it's like that highlighting of that pain, basically, like a huge like pain point point marketing versus like aspirational marketing. I hear this conversation just a lot in general. So what do you think? Like, and I I know this obviously would depend on the person's business and the the individual, right? Because I think a big piece of it too is obviously that it needs to sound like you, right? That's a big piece of that trust issue, like you were just talking about. But what would you suggest? Like, what is working more than the other at this point that you've seen?

SPEAKER_01: 10:04

My experience is that if you want great clients, speak to the transformation. If you want clients who are gonna work with you forever and have the same problems forever and you want to stagnate your own business in that way, lean into the pain point marketing. I think both of them are selling. It depends on what kind of person you want to sell to and what kind of archetype. Let's use an example. Let's look at a coach's sales page to be more specific. If you get onto a coach's sales page and they say, you're gonna be amazing in three simple steps with my help, schedule a call now. And then you scroll and there's a problem section, and there's another problem section and another problem section. And before you know it, you're halfway down the page and they have just drilled this emotional response about all of your problems. What they've unconsciously done is aligned themselves with your problems. So you start to think as a reader, this person understands me. Sure, that's great. But have they aligned themselves with your solution? Have they unconsciously married themselves to your future? Not necessarily. So it depends on what people's motivations are, and that's why all the sales pages that I write and that I help my clients write are gonna have both. But we're gonna make that pain point section more brief, but we're gonna show that you know them so well that you can take them on the emotional journey towards the future. But to answer your question more directly, I think that we need to have both, but we need to focus on transformation to actually see client results.

SPEAKER_00: 11:32

Yeah. No, I would agree with that. And like I'm kind of one of those coaches too. I always tell people this like, I don't want you to, I don't want you to need me forever. You know, like even like as with therapists, like you get stuck with you get stuck in that place, right? Like of, well, what is the growth that's really happening there? Right. Like, I don't, I I want people, like I want to create things that are actually going to be transformational, like whether it's programs, containers, whatever, so that people don't have to stay on that hook. But what I see is quite the opposite, like like everywhere around me. Like that's there's so much still of that pain point heavy marketing because, and especially now, like with the climate and everything that in the world, right? I mean, it hits your amygdala. Like that is what social media is designed to do. It is designed to rage bait you and keep you in a state of distress so that you can buy and stay on their platform and get sucked into that. So, what do we do with this? Like, right? How do we, like, how do we break out of that? Because it's such a conundrum. It's like, well, I want people to be able to, you know, see the transformation and like identify with that. And they're not responding to that, right? Like, so does is that just a disconnect in who I'm, you know, who you're talking to, kind of using myself as an example here. But like, I think a lot of people, a lot of coaches can feel like this is happening. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01: 12:54

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And great point with the amygdala is that like when you're in this, like when your amygdala is being activated, it's not quite fight or flight, but your amygdala is what saves you. Yeah, it's so important. And it says something is not right here. And it will do that for things like when you see an image that's just too good to be true, right? It's either over-edited or created by AI. It's promises that you're just like, they they just can't keep that. They can't make me a millionaire in six weeks. They can't know that's where your amygdala activates. So that's both visual and in copy to really break that down, but it also erodes trust to outsource the thinking to a robot. And then when people can sense that, they will they will feel that and they won't be able to make a purchasing decision because they won't feel safe. So that's kind of when we talked about trust and what I see working now, that's a trend, and that's a trend that we have to follow. But when we just talked about psychology and what's worked long term and talking about people's problems versus solutions, that's the psychology. Like that doesn't change. So, and the amygdala takes play in both, where we have to, as marketers in our own businesses, play to the trends and play to the like tried and true. So tried and true with a depth of the blue. Like we're we're playing with what has always worked and what's working now. And it's a it's a really big opportunity. It's fun.

SPEAKER_00: 14:20

Yeah, I agree. And I feel like, you know, I I love the just like overall collective shift that I've seen anyway, and that I'm continuing to see from you know the girl boss hustle culture, right? Like we're moving away, or we want to move away from a lot of that and moving more into okay, could this feel a little bit easier? Could this feel a little bit more inflow? More of that, like, yeah, feminine energies, I think, come come into that for sure. But I feel like just like the energy of where we're at right now, just in general, like globally, uh, is shifting. And so it makes sense that all of this is gonna shift along with it. Uh, so for those people who are sort of intuitive about that and in tune with like, okay, this is where I want to go with my sales copy, what are some things that we can start incorporating or what do we need to like remember? I mean, obviously, this is what you do. So, like, you guys should get in touch with her if you want to help with all this. But if they're sort of like DYIing and revising some of their sales pages, what are some things that they could be thinking of?

SPEAKER_01: 15:30

Yeah. Um, I think the first thing before you start writing sales copy is to understand your audience. So often we see business owners just create a new product because it's what they want to create versus what was asked of them. Well, how do you get your people to ask for something? Is you just ask them for feedback on what you currently have and ask them where the gaps are. You're not opening yourself up to get ripped apart. It's okay. As business owners, we have thick skin. You can ask them, what do you wish I had in this program? What is something that you wish I offered? What's a problem that you have that I don't solve? Of course, reward them to be a little bit more industry specific, but ask them and then use that language to go create either an upsell, a downsell, a VIP product, a new product, a new offer. Um, but we have to understand our audiences before we write, because then what we run the risk of doing is writing what we think they need to hear versus writing what they need to hear to buy. And I'm of the school of thought that you only need in your copy what your people need to know to buy. So if you have um typically women over 50 are very detail-oriented. They are, they have their walls up. So if your audience is women over 50, you might want to have a breakdown of what's in each module of your course or what every hour of your photography day is gonna look like. Or, you know, you might want to give them additional resources on what to wear on your um brand shoot day or something like that. Like they're gonna be a little bit more detail-oriented, um, especially when purchasing a specific service. Um, there are other demographics that are total skimmers, including people who are neurodivergent. So if you're writing to a group of neurodivergent individuals and your sales page is like 7,000 scrolls long, babe, they are not your ADHD, your ADHD folks are not reading all of that. So you need to know what your different demographics and psychographics need to know to be able to buy. Um, especially different industries. Um, especially, I have a client who is a dietitian for individuals with IBS. They need a whole different set of information, and it has to be specific to their specific health problem. And they need to know that she's licensed, they need to know a lot about her individually. So ultimately, it comes down to know your audience before you start to write. When you know what they need to know to buy, and you can look to your past clients of asking them, why'd you buy? And they will tell you what needs to go on that page, then you have the opportunity to write it in. I would say stay as brief as possible, focus on the transformation rather than a whole bunch of problem language, because again, we don't want to unconsciously align ourselves with their problem. And um, like be personable.

SPEAKER_00: 18:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 18:13

There, if there are other people who do what you do, then you need to stand out in some way. And you get to do that with your personality.

SPEAKER_00: 18:22

Yeah. I feel like a lot of people, which is really interesting, you know, what I kind of said at the the top of this episode, that you wouldn't, I wouldn't think this, that would that us creatives would have a hard time doing that, right? Because a lot of creative women, especially I find, get very caught up and uh sort of trapped in that it has to be perfect belief, right? Because we were sold that for so long, too. Like everything needs to look a certain way, and that sales page and that funnel needs to be like dialed in and perfect. And if it's not, it's crap, basically. And they also have a very hard time showing themselves like their personality because of this. Like, I don't know, a lot of it I think has to do with like fear of being perceived and like whatever reason, right? Like there's a lot of like other psychological reasons why that would be happening to somebody, but that is such an important piece of it. Like you just said, like, if people don't have that touch point of like you're an actual person and relatable, like that's a huge barrier. And so what do you suggest? Like in with your with your clients, what do you see as how far do you want to go with that on your website or like in certain places, maybe it's just on your about page, or what are your suggestions? Like letting people know what you really like stand for, like what's working with that right now? Because there has a lot of women, I would say 40s and 50s especially, who are like, I am not doing that because that is gonna, they're so afraid to repel. Yeah, it's public marketing.

SPEAKER_01: 20:02

But if we're owning our own businesses and we're not repelling the jerks or the people who aren't aligned with us and all that, then we've created a really shitty job for ourselves. And why would you do that? A lot of us left corporate, a lot of us left something worse to create something better. So why wouldn't you repel people that you don't want to work with? And when you do that, you're gonna become super relatable to other people. For example, um, there's a person who's well respected in this space, in the online business, business management space. And she posts some stuff every so often that is just so like 90s diet culture.

SPEAKER_00: 20:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:41

Like they were recording this around the holidays, and she posted something on one of the holidays about how she was like exercising like crazy so that she could enjoy dinner. And I was just like, I can't, I just stopped following her because like it's free to unfollow and it protects my peace. And I was like, that's fine. That might resonate with other people who really feel that way, and they're like, oh my gosh, she posted that and I felt so seen. Great. It's okay to repel. It is okay. It is safe for her to repel me because I wasn't buying from her before anyway. Um, we're living in a super political era. I'm personally very outspoken about it. It's on my intake form on my website. It says, This is what I believe. If you don't agree, please do not submit your form. If you do agree, click here. And there's one opportunity to click. Um, it also lives on my about page. So, depending on your industry, like if you're a fitness professional, putting your beliefs around what you do is super important. And if you don't adhere to diet culture and you don't, whatever, then put that there. If you're a photographer, I have a client who is an intimate portraits photographer and she does minimal editing. And she's very clear about that on her website because you come to her to find beauty in yourself. So she's not going to make you 20 pounds thick. And take away all of your cellulite and whatever. She believes that like all bodies are beautiful and that's what she photographs, and that's what you go to her for. So she may repel people who are just who just want the edited version of themselves. And that's okay because then she loves her clients and she runs a business that she freaking loves.

SPEAKER_00: 22:18

Yeah, that's that piece that so many I a lot of photographers is that they're just so afraid to double down on on that because they're so afraid of losing business. But I really hope you guys like hear what Sam is saying here, in that it really helps refine and call out that resonance with those people who actually are your clients. Because we don't like realistically, you you cannot work with everybody. You wouldn't want to work with everybody. I don't know why we have this belief that we have to, right? That's that lack mentality of like, oh my God, you know, like where's the next job coming from? But when you shift into this more abundant sort of like quote unquote mindset for lack of it's I know it's overused, but it's true. It's like, okay, well, there is more than enough for everybody and my clients. I just want to work with those people. How can I call them out? How can I literally put my, you know, radio beams out to them? And that's a huge part of it.

SPEAKER_01: 23:20

Yeah, yeah, 100%. When people work with me one-on-one and I'm trying to get their client voice and they've sent me all their testimonials and stuff, and I say, Can you erase the testimonials that are from people you didn't like working with? And can you put in this folder your fate the testimonials from your favorite people to have worked with? And then what I ask them is, okay, so tell me about person A, B, and C in this like favorites folder. Like, why did you love working with them? What did they do? Where do they go? You know, more of that. And that's an important question to ask ourselves too is like, what does my favorite client look like? Not what's my ideal client avatar, but like who have been just the best people to work with?

SPEAKER_00: 23:58

Yeah, more of that. Yeah.

unknown: 24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 24:01

Start there. More of that. No, a hundred percent. I feel like it's really easy to forget that when you're like, you know, again, most people I don't think are like wired for that. I also think that most creatives in general and creative brains and neurospicy brains and all of that, right? Sales, we've been taught, like we all have our like internal beliefs about what sales is, and nobody wants to be like a slimy used car salesman, but you are being sold to all the time, right? And so it's very important to educate yourself on that, I believe, so that you can recognize it as well. And you're really big about talking about how these underrepresented communities, which I also agree with, especially in just like female spaces too, right? Like it's just important for us to like get this. It's not even just like if if you are wanting to a master at it yourself, but understanding it is, I think, really important for future generations as well.

SPEAKER_01: 24:58

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And being able to like talk to each other, like you said, it's kind of funny how as creatives we get so hung up on this perfectionism. And it's like at the end of the day, what we do connects people. And that's what your words do too, is it just connects you with the next best client you've ever had.

SPEAKER_00: 25:18

Yes, that's a really great way of putting it. So let's touch a little bit on this AI piece because I don't think we can really talk about anything right now. About anything that we do in this space, but especially writing, uh, unless we sort of like bring this into the conversation. So with AI becoming a part of this copy workflow for a lot of people, what mistakes do you see a lot of business owners making with that? And then do you think that it actually can be supportive of it as well?

SPEAKER_01: 25:53

Yeah, yes. I think it can be supportive of it. I tell people this story relatively often, is that my grandfather was a primary school teacher. Um, and when we would go to his house when we were kids and we would like do our homework or whatever, um, he was like, You can't use a calculator for this. You're not always gonna have a calculator in your pocket. Obviously, yeah, we do. But I went on to high school and took pre-calc and calculus, and I had to have one of those big, chonky TI84 calculators. And I had to know what to put into the calculator to get it to spit out the graph. Otherwise, it was gonna give me something totally weird. Right. So I still had to know how to prompt the technology to get the outcome that I wanted to get. And then a lot of times my teachers at the time, this is in the early 2000s that I was in high school, would still have us like then put it out on graph paper to like show that we understood it. Um, but of course we were using technology to get there. So, what I think from a copywriting perspective, like there is a place for AI. I think it helps beat blank page syndrome. I think it gives lots of good ideas. I use it every so often for a copy or to like bounce ideas or say, like, the story doesn't seem cohesive. Like, where's the opportunity here? But I have to know what a like a cohesive story looks like to know that that's missing in the first place, to then like use it as my coworker versus as my brain. And I think too often what we're doing is we're outsourcing our thinking, and that's dangerous on a lot of levels. But also what I see is people running these launches again, like post Black Friday. I saw a lot of great emails come into my inbox. I saw a lot of emails that I was like, yeah, chat wrote that. Yeah, 100%. When I can smell that from a mile away, not just as a copywriter, but as a consumer, I look at it and I think, okay, it's one thing that chat wrote it. Why is that bad? Because I don't trust that there's a person behind the business. It's the trust. That that person is going to give me their brain if I were to give them my money. So it's a trust indicator, is what it comes back to. So I think, and this is what I work with a lot of my done with you clients on is like, how do we recognize what feels fake to bring that humanity back into our copy? But yeah, I think there's definitely a place for it. It's just we can't copy paste it and think that like just because it sounds punchy means that it adheres to sales psychology and is actually going to convert for you.

SPEAKER_00: 28:23

Yeah, for real. No, it is true. And I mean, and I've talked about it a lot on the podcast. I definitely use it as that as well. Like a collaborator, coworker, sort of like, check this, check that, right? I find that it can be really good for revision as well when it comes to stuff like that or calling out, like you have to train it though, like you said, to do that. Otherwise, it's just gonna be a yes man. You have to like actually train it to call those things out and not just tell you that everything you do is amazing. Like, that is not helpful. Um, so I think that you know, I I I like that perspective, and it's that's where I'm landing with this sort of like narrow narrow intelligence is with you know what I mean. Like super intelligence is a whole other dialogue that I'm ready to protest in the streets about at this point. But I I also think that this use of it and like the medical uses of it and things like that, I think that there are some advances, right? But um, yeah, I mean, the bottom line is that we're not in control of any of it either. And you know, that's where we have to we have to be able to understand it enough, I think, just like anything else. Like, I think we owe it to ourselves to at least understand what that is, also so that you can see it, like you said, in other people's copy. Like, if it doesn't feel right, there's probably a reason why.

SPEAKER_01: 29:43

Right. It's gonna send out those trust signals. Your amygdala is gonna just be lit up and people aren't gonna buy from you. And I think like this is, like you said, a very micro use case, is like outsourcing something like a language learning model to do some writing for us. Um, but like I use AI in other places all the time. I'm asking the one that sits, I don't want to activate her, the one that sits on my kitchen counter what the weather is today. I like that's an AI assistant. I use one to help me cut down my podcasts and cut out my filler words. Yes. So there's so many great use cases for AI. But one of the fundamental things that we learned when we were kids in probably like third grade when we wrote our very first essays was there are three things that great writing does is it educates, it persuades, or it entertains. And if you stop thinking about how you can do that, then like what happens if all of that disappears one day? Can you still entertain and persuade in your business? Like it's just it's such an invaluable skill to have. And you'd practice it every day simply by like writing a nurture email or doing a launch.

SPEAKER_00: 30:58

Yeah, no, for sure. Okay, so segueing into the launches, because that's a really big topic. Um, for somebody who's listening who has a launch coming up, maybe, or just in general, they feel overwhelmed by the whole idea of it, because that's very common as well. What are like some simple things they can do or they can adjust maybe in their copy that would make a big impact, like right now?

SPEAKER_01: 31:23

Yeah. Um, again, go back and look at your client surveys. And if you haven't run one in a while and you need a great nurture idea, like go survey your audience, dangle a$25 Amazon gift card at the end of it for like the two top two people, like get some responses, get some meaningful responses. See where people perceive themselves at. Like something that I do in my business. If anytime anybody opts into my list, I ask them, where are you at in business? Are you newer in figuring it out? Are you established and growing or somewhere in between? I can then cater different offers to different people. I can just understand where my people are. I can understand if I need to shift where I am attracting people from. Um, so go ask your audience first if you're launching. Make sure this is something that they want. Make sure that, you know, when you're asking other questions, that you're asking questions that are going to help you write your sales emails. Leave a couple of them open-ended. Um, then this is probably a great use case for AI, kind of tying that in is take one question and tell it, I just asked this question. These are the 20 responses that I got. What are the top three things that stand out to you? And make sure that you're taking yourself out of answering that and not just finding the answers that you want. So it's going to tell you a few things. And those are three of your sales emails right there is what are you afraid of right now, or what's your biggest challenge right now? Boom, boom, boom. It's just giving you three really solid content ideas. So listen to your audience before you start writing to them. What else can you do? Uh create more content with your face and with your words. You don't have to have it super scripted. In fact, being human and tripping over your words and maybe repeating yourself and using fillers makes you human. It makes people trust you. Um, educate them. Because if you help people feel smart, then they feel attached to you. Um, and then send that in emails. Repurpose all of this content too. Like anything that you make an Instagram story, you can turn into an email. Um, but yeah, I would start communicating with them and educating them. And then when it comes time to sell to them, it'll feel so obvious that you're the right person to work with because they know that you've been studying that and helping them learn more about it. Um, and then you're just helping them put the rubber to the road and take that education and turn it into action.

SPEAKER_00: 33:42

Okay, well, those were amazing. I think that's like a fantastic place to sort of like wrap up on because that's exactly like that also ties into like where things are like headed. Like we talked a little bit about like, okay, what we need to be thinking about going into 2026 and beyond because things are moving and changing very, very quickly. I think those are fantastic tips and a really, really great reminder that your audience has the answers. And so many of us just like kind of live in our heads, and we're like, oh my God, like I don't know what anybody wants. Well, have you asked them? So really, really good reminder. Um, I don't think that we talk enough about that right now. So thank you for all of that. And how can people work with you? What are some of the things that you do? I know you've got a podcast as well, and this is what you talk about, you know, everywhere. Uh, but what do you do for people? You have a couple of different things that you you do.

SPEAKER_01: 34:36

Yeah, for sure. So I kind of touched on the done with you. That's called copy on demand. It's where you get me in your back pocket and submit copy to me every single week, and I reply on Tuesdays. So it's on demand because you can submit anytime, any type of copy. And I'll respond to you with what to change and why so that you become a better copywriter in your business that's done with you. Um, then done for you copy. Um, bring me in when you're launching, and I write everything from opt-in pages, sales pages, um, upsells, downsells, thank you pages, all like there's a longer list of copy than you think. It's not just a sales page and a few emails. So that's my bread and butter. I also write people's websites for them. So there's done with you, there's done for you. If you're curious if I write it, just reach out and ask. You can find me on Instagram at nomad copy. Uh, we'll make sure it's all linked in the show notes too. But my website's nomadcopyagency.com.

SPEAKER_00: 35:31

Perfect. Yeah, I'll put all of this in the show notes for you guys. So you guys can go and find Sam and our universe. Thank you so much for all of these gems. This was really, really a great reminder, but also uh I think that is gonna be really new and fresh information for a lot of people. So I appreciate you guys. Good.

SPEAKER_01: 35:50

Good. I'm so glad. And if we need to like go back to basics, anybody is welcome to just reach out to me and be like, what did you mean? Yes. It's me in the DMs, it's always me. So feel free to reach out.

SPEAKER_00: 36:03

I know you guys are walking away with a lot from this episode. I think that one of the main things that I would like to highlight for you is going back to what I said there at the end is that we really need to root into who we're talking to and that it's okay to repel people, right? There is this connotation, and so many people, a lot of us have this people pleasing. Like a lot of this is all trauma stuff, right? We were just programmed and we can decide now that we don't want to continue operating like that. So this is a really big piece of it, that mindset and that unconscious belief system that's still operating underneath all of this is that, yeah, you might consciously know that you need to be, you know, speaking more to your true target client and you need to get even more specific about who that is. But you've got like this underpinning of like, well, what if this costs me business or what if I lose clients or whatever, right? You need to turn around and look at that and not just run away from it. Okay. So, like this is the mindset piece of this episode that I want you to hear is that if that's coming up for you and you've got issues with being perceived, with, you know, well, what if I say how I really feel? Is that going to trigger people? All of that kind of stuff. I would invite you to really explore that, okay, without judgment. That's not what this is about. Like, you need to look at it though, and not just kind of gloss over it and think that it's okay to continue operating like that because it isn't, because we are moving into a completely different space online, in general, in business, like as creative business owners, you being the most you that you can possibly be unapologetically, is not only what's going to resonate with your people and bring them right to you, it's also gonna help you live a more fulfilled and happy life, right? Because why would you be doing something that didn't let you up? Okay, like you got into this business because you wanted to do things on your own terms. So why are you not doing that? So I would invite you to look at that little piece of it. And if you've got issues with that, get in touch with me. That is what I do inside of coaching. This is such a common thing that I see happening, like just across the board. You guys really are so amazing at what you do, right? I see so many talented, so many talented people. And all you really need is a little bit of refinement as far as like your website, your copy, things like that. Like you've got all these pieces. That that missing piece of like not standing in your awesomeness and not like talking directly to your people, calling them out so that they like literally rise up and come right to you. That is what's holding you back. And so, just an invitation for you to look at it. If this was triggering at all for you, then there's a reason why it was, right? So you got this. And um, Sam's got some great, really great tips. So definitely get in touch with her if you need help with that. Okay, guys, have a great rest of your week. Do something really good for yourself. Talk to you soon. Love you. Bye.