Welcome And Guest Setup

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Tried and True with the Dash of Woo, where we blend rock solid tips with a little bit of magic. I'm Renee Bowen, your host, life and business coach, and professional photographer. At your service, we are all about getting creative, diving into your business, and playing with manifestation over here. So are you ready to get inspired and have some fun? Let's dive in.

The Biggest Course Creation Mistake

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Today's guest is someone who lives at the intersection of education, strategy, and transformation. Jasmine Jante is the founder and CEO of Creation, a company that helps experts and thought leaders turn their knowledge into transformational online courses that actually get results for students. Her team has helped produce over 120 programs and more than 1,500 lessons that have reached over 100,000 students and generated millions in revenue for her clients. What I love about Jasmine's approach is that she doesn't just focus on the information, she focuses on the learning experience itself. She started her career as a first grade teacher in Detroit, which means she learned early how to take complex ideas and make them engaging and accessible. So today we're going to talk about something that I think is incredibly relevant for my audience, you guys listening here. I think a lot of creatives and coaches want to create courses, but they struggle to turn what they know into something that actually changes people. And Jasmine brings a really interesting lens to this, especially when we start layering in things like human design and alignment and how different people learn and lead. It's a really interesting chat with Jasmine. I know you're going to get a lot out of it. Let's jump in. Hello, Jasmine. Thank you so much for being here. I am excited to talk to you about courses because I feel like a lot of my audience, and I've heard this in the ether, about, hey, you know, like I've got this creative business, but I don't know, like, is there something else that I could be doing? And maybe they they feel like they have a course in them or they want to teach about something, but there's always that little like impostery thing that pops up, right? Like, so you often say in what you do that teaching like is its own skill set, right? So what do you think that most people get wrong when they try and turn their their expertise, something they're really, really good at, and they feel confident about into a course?

SPEAKER_00 2:26

It's always a great initiative to take on, right? Especially if you want more income, you want more impact. Usually creative entrepreneurs are trading time for money. And so they're like, okay, how do I get off of that hamster wheel and create income in other ways? And absolutely like your expertise is so valuable and it can be so valuable to so many different types of people. The biggest mistake they make is assuming that it's going to be within the same business model. So what I mean by that is especially like creative entrepreneurs, right? You got a lot of photographers in your audience. If you are taking photos, right? Let's say you're um a family photographer, okay? So family photos, and you want to do a program for helping other people learn how to take family photos, that's actually a different audience now. Yeah. So it's kind of a different business. See what I'm saying? And so a lot of people, they make that mistake. They think like, oh, well, I'm just teaching what I know how to do. But if you're teaching what you know how to do to someone you're not already serving, then it's a harder leap than most people would assume.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

For sure. Where do you think people need to start with that? You know what I mean? Like when they're looking at it, like you said, it is a whole different business model. So does that require then going back to the basics of like, okay, who am I talking to? Like target client, avatar, all of those things, right? Like we need to be doing that for a whole other quote unquote side of our business now.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Yes. Oftentimes that's the case. Now it's different if let's say you are a family photographer and you have a huge audience of moms. Like moms love you, moms of toddlers, right? They love you, they follow you, they want you to take pictures of their kids. And they're also like, how do I take better kit pictures of my kids on the day-to-day?

unknown 4:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Well, now you can create a program that's for your the audience you already have. Maybe it's like an iPhone photography course to help moms take pictures of every holiday. I don't know, just making something up, right? But like that might be an easier lift than positioning yourself as someone who can help other photographers start a family photography business. Yeah. So I think you're right. It is going back to like who's your ideal client, what's the problem you're solving for them, and how is your solution unique for that audience? And really, like, if you have multiple ideas, pressure testing them a little bit to see which is the best for you based on what you have. Because I know there's there's other photographers that I just follow on the internet because they take really cool pictures. And um they moved to helping other photographers instead of helping their, you know, first audience because they had so many of them in their audience and they could charge a lot more. And so that made sense for them. So I'd, you know, I'm not here to like say like there's a blanket, one way to do this, one is better than the other, but I do think it's assessing who is in your audience, what are they asking for, and then pressure testing a couple of ideas before you truly clarify what's the one next or the one first online offering that you're gonna put out there.

Pressure Testing Before You Build

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Yeah, okay, yeah, that's a really good point to make there. Because like a lot of times I feel like we have we have the ideas, right? And and they might be a really good idea, but like are people really asking us for this? Or is it something, you know, that we just real f feel passionate about? Okay, well, if if that's the case, lean in a little bit, see, like you said, like do a little bit more testing. And, you know, before you kind of put it out there to the world, right? Um, what are some of the best ways to like do that? Like, can you pull your audience? Like, what are some of the best ways that we can actually pressure test what our audience really wants and is a good use of our time?

SPEAKER_00 6:31

I think asking the audience is always the best place to start. I know a lot of people are doing like AI market research. And that I find is really good for like distilling your ideas so that it's easy to ask your audience more than actually going and saying, which would be a better program to launch for me. It's like, what are the right questions I can ask my audience to discern what's the best idea for me to launch? Right difference there. So, um, and when you're asking your audience, you're right. Like, if you have an Instagram following, do do polls, then follow up with the people who answered the poll in DMs or ask to get on a 20-minute call just to like ask questions and get an understanding of where you're going next. I mean, like currently, right now in my business, we're considering launching a new division. And that's exactly what I'm doing. It's like reached out to former clients and colleagues, and I'm like, can I talk to you for 20 minutes? And like, here's kind of what I'm working on. Are you down to just help sister out for 20 minutes? And more than likely, if you have relationships with people, you're like, Yeah, tell me what's going on. You know, so I think that's usually the best tactic is whatever, wherever your audience is hanging out, email, Instagram, LinkedIn, whatever, kind of test the waters there. Um, and then follow up with actual human-to-human conversations.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Yeah, that's really good advice. And honestly, like I see a lot of people like in the online space, let's say, like, you know, online entrepreneur, like coaches, experts, like, you know, what we do. I see a lot of of that in that community. I don't see a lot of it in the photographer community, people with creative businesses who are thinking about, because first of all, it's new to them, right? Like, so just like anything else, you're not gonna know what to do. You're gonna have a good idea and then be like, okay, what now? Well, that's kind of why I wanted to point this out, because there are like some things that you can really that are gonna save you some time and energy at the end of the day. And yeah, it might feel like a lot to hop on a 20-minute call with like eight to 10 people, but the value and the data that you get from that is really important. Like, really important. So I'm glad that you mentioned that because I don't really feel like enough of us think about that angle. We're like, okay, a poll, I get that, but like, no, I think I need to go deeper with somebody and like really kind of hear what they how how they feel about this. Like, and you never know too where that conversation is gonna take you, which is pretty that's true.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Yes, the many market research conversations lead to sales conversations. I always say, like, keep them way separate. Like, if someone's asking you about something, be like, that was not the intention for this call. I would love to share with you once I have it really pulled together. Why don't we talk about that next week? Yeah, you know, like respect the intention of the conversation. The other thing I'll say is like with polls and even email surveys or things like that, is you don't really know who's answering the question. And and the answers that you're getting might be from people that you would never even consider for this new offer.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

True.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

So, like you're looking at data, but like what is the like what's the integrity of the data, I guess? Yeah, is the way to say it. Versus if I see, okay, well, a hundred people responded to my poll and I can I know 10 of them, and I know 10 of them are the ideal fit for this new offer. I'm gonna reach out to those 10 and I'm gonna rely more on that data rather than what the whole audience said, many of which would never be a fit in the first place.

Imposter Syndrome And Teaching Skill

SPEAKER_01 10:13

No, that's really good advice. So I hear a lot from people, especially photographers, but anybody with a creative business, because I find that, you know, first of all, it's something that we're sort of just naturally good at, right? Usually some I mean, he has a creative business. It's just something that we're good at. And then we figured out a way to monetize it and, you know, whatever. But a lot of people in these businesses who then also are thinking about or have been asked even by their community already, like, hey, because that's how I started. They were like, hey, how are you doing this? How are you, how are you making money as a photographer? Right. I kind of I always say I fell into coaching because it was never my intention to ever be a teacher or a coach. Like, I mean, I have a degree in psychology, so the coaching thing really fits with that. But I I came to it through that that roadmap of being a teacher, a mentor, basically, to other photographers. And I never ever would have pegged myself as somebody who wanted to do that or who would be good at doing it. So I feel like it does surprise a lot of us sometimes that we're like, hmm, my people are asking me for this. I wonder if I could do it. But then immediately what happens is that they usually go, Oh, I don't, I don't know everything about that. And so who am I to do that? So I want to speak to that a little bit. Do you see that a lot in what you do? And how do you reframe that for your clients?

SPEAKER_00 11:42

I think that when you have a level of expertise, you can equate that to like school. And you probably have a doctorate in photography at this point. Right. The people coming to you for support are not kindergartners at photography. They're probably high schoolers at photography. So that being said, though, if there's someone who's a kindergartner at photography, you are not the best person to teach them because you know them way too much. It's gonna be way too hard for you to like, you know, get down on that level. And so that's kind of how I like to think about it is everyone has a certain level of skill, and there's someone who could is perfectly positioned to learn from your current level of skill. And as you evolve, you will help different kinds of people. Yeah, that's how I like to I like to think about it. Is everyone's best positioned to teach someone else? And so it's just learning where you're at and then who are you best positioned to teach?

Design For Fast Student Results

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Yeah, for sure. Because I mean, yeah, you're ideally going to be teaching like this one thing, right? Especially when you're just kind of coming right out of the gate, like something that you, like you said, you've mastered this thing. Okay, well, you don't need to know all the other things, right? Like, I feel like that's kind of what happens with creative brains. We're like, oh, but what if this now? And then like the overthinking starts. It's like, no, no, no, no. You are literally just teaching this person, like, really, in essence, do you know more than that person on this? Okay, then you are qualified. That makes sense, right? Because, like, at the end of the day, they're coming to you to learn a skill. They're not asking you to be the end-all be-all perfect person who knows the answers to everything. Just you got to know a little bit more about how to do this thing that you've mastered and that you have the roadmap for. So I feel like it's just literally one of those things where you just kind of have to remind yourself, you know. I mean, I always talk about like our unconscious mind and how it's it's just trying to keep us safe, right? It's just those thoughts come up because it's like, oh, this is new. And it acts like it's a bear chasing us, but it's really just because it's a new thought and it's a scary thing. But at the end of the day, you do know more than that person. Okay, then that's the first qualifier. And then you can get deeper into like the whole target client thing. And like you said, whether or not like you're the best person, you know, to work with them. But I feel like that is a roadblock. I hear a lot from people. Like, who am I to do this? Well, that's a mindset issue, first of all. And it's really important for you to just bring yourself back down to that level of I know more about this than you. Okay, we're good. And then build yourself up from there. But there's a lot of courses out there, and there's a lot of change happening in the course world. And I do have some questions about AI in a minute, because how that's kind of been on my mind, because I also have courses, obviously. So I do want to kind of bring that up in just a minute. But really, kind of what I wanted to dive into for a second is as this market is changing, and just in general, like so many people are kind of like doing it now, right? What do you think, in your opinion, um, is is a really good example, or what does a truly transformational learning experience look like? Like what what's one of the biggest factors, or maybe the two biggest factors, of something that's actually transformational for people and that people actually really want now?

SPEAKER_00 15:12

It always comes down to one question. And that one question is what is going to get my student results the fastest? At the end, that is always the question. A lot of people say you need a curriculum, right? Like you need which uh usually people course and curriculum is synonymous. There's a set of videos, workbooks, tools, even AI tools, things that help people learn something so that they can take an action on that something to get a result. Okay. So you know, a curriculum is something that you can have, but maybe you don't need a curriculum. Sometimes people say community is what you need to get someone a result. But I don't know about you. I've been in plenty of programs where there's no community and I get the result I'm looking for. Some people say you have to have coaching elements. And again, I've taken self-paced programs that have gotten me the results I wanted. So, you know, we think about these things, and there's a lot of people out there marketing, you need to have a course, or marketing, you should be a coach, or marketing, you need a certification, or marketing, you need, you know, community is get a school group. That is the best thing to do. Right. And at the end of the day, those are all vehicles to the solution, which is getting your client results. And your clients are different than my clients, right? Everybody listening right now, all of your clients are different. So why there, while there might be patterns, it's really just about knowing your client, the result that they want to achieve, and what's the fastest path to get them there? There's no one specific offer format, delivery format.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Do you see stuff that's working better than others right now? Like as far as like the shifts that I was kind of talking about, just in general, right? Like, so are these courses that are very big and meaty, and you know what I mean, like start to finish? Like, are people shifting in the way that they want those kind of courses? Do they want something smaller? Like, there's so much noise, I feel like. And I feel like you just have like probably really good firsthand knowledge because this is what you you do. What's in the ether, right? Like, what have you kind of seen happening?

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Especially since 2020. Like 2020, everybody went online. Uh, people started taking programs because we're stuck at home and we have money from the government. So it's like, okay, let's learn that thing we wanted to learn or start that business we wanted to start, which is great. And because the market got saturated with, I'll be honest, a lot of bad programs. Yeah. Now I should say the market is more sophisticated in they don't believe that information equals transformation anymore. But the thing is, they never wanted to buy your course. That's not why they they didn't ever want a course. What they wanted was a result, which is why I come back to that question. It's like, what's gonna get your clients the results? Now, if we think about some things that we're teaching, like they actually do need to learn a certain amount of information in order for them to get the result. Like that's just part of it, right? Not for every everything, but for most things. And the question is there, how can we make it as short as possible? So I still see people, this is crazy to me, but I still see people with like, you know, the five-course bundle on their website. And I'm like, I mean, if it's selling, then like by all means, like keep doing it. Like, don't if it's not broken, you know, don't fix it. And also people start without a really strong personal brand behind them or just starting out, that's gonna be a lot harder than something specific, tangible, and small that someone feels like, okay, I can log in and take it in 45 minutes and get the result I'm looking for.

Human Design For Course Alignment

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Yeah. No, that's a really good point. I I've seen, I've seen some of that too. And I mean, I in myself, right? Like exactly. Like, okay, well, how how how can I get to the result that I want in the shortest amount of time? Like, how can I be more efficient with my time? That's really, I feel like that we are just, I don't think it's just me. I think that in in general, we we kind of all want that because we're time is so valuable. But also, like you said, we're just more savvy than we were, like you said, in 2020. So in general, you also you talk a lot about like the human design piece of it. And you know, like I'm super into human design, I'm not certified in it, but I'm I use it in my coaching, I use it for myself. And I want to talk to you a little bit about how you can be using human design when building courses, even when managing teams and things like that. How are you using that in your business?

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Yeah, I mean, we most use it on our team and with our clients. So we get their human design for the ones that are open to it, like, you know, not everybody is like on board with that. But for the people that are, we get their design and we develop like their course creator human design profile, if you will. So it's just looking at the design from the element of how are you best suited to make decisions about your course? How are you best suited to collaborate with us and like how we're designed? And even a little bit around like which pod. So we work in pods on our team, and you know, every program, every project has a certain number of people on it of different um skill sets. So it's like which pod is best aligned for your design based on their design, right? So that's kind of how we're using it a little bit behind the scenes. I mean, the easiest thing is like authority. We attract so many emotional authorities. And they really struggle to make decisions. We're most of the folks on my team are sacral.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

And so they come in and I just have to keep saying to them over and over again, like 80% is a hundred percent. 80% is a hundred percent, especially because like this is their body of work, and now they're going to record something. So it's not, it doesn't have to stay that way forever, but they have this sense of like it has to be perfect because I'm only doing this once, and they forget that there's evolution involved. Um, and so just saying to them over and over again, like 80% is a hundred percent for you. Like, that's exactly how you're supposed to feel. Are we at the level set? Are we at the neutral? Good. Let's keep on going. Exactly. Um, yeah. So that's I mean, that's a specific example, but we're mostly using it with our clients, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

I love that because I'm I'm in a Emotional generator. So I I definitely identify with that. I I get a lot. It's so interesting that because I'm a two-four emotional generator. And I I attract a lot of five ones and one threes. I attract a lot of ones, one lines, which is really interesting to me. I've just been sort of like looking at some of the data. And I mean, again, it's just like for my own personal like data, but I think it's a very interesting take. It's like, oh, okay. And again, human design is such a big and deep concept. Like I could study it the rest of my life and still feel like I'm scratching the surface, which is probably why I like it, because I like to go deep. But you bring up a good point, which is, you know, depending on, like, and again, the people who are open to it, like you said, someone's design actually does influence the way they structure a course. And so I feel like that's brilliant that you're incorporating that. Because, like, me as a generator, I'm gonna structure a course differently than a projector will. Don't you agree? Totally. So, where could someone start? Let's say that, right? Like, so if someone is into their human design and they're and they're thinking about starting to develop a course, even if it's a small something or whether, um, what are the most important pieces maybe of their of their human design or some of the first things that they would be thinking about in terms of where and how to get started on that? Like where to lean in and to stay aligned, essentially. Because that's what human design is teaching us at the end of the day. It's like, where's your energy being spent, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yeah, it's a really great question. I mean, I also am not a human design expert, right? But I will say that I'll speak from first hand experience here. I'm a one-four. And I think that the profile is a really important place to look because it shows you how you like to learn. And usually we design our learning experiences how we like to learn because we assume everyone else likes to learn that way. So for me, I'm a one-line. I like to, I mean, you should see I get on a tear, man. Like, if I if I am about a certain subject, it's like I buy every book. I like build out spreadsheets for myself to just work with. I mean, like, I and I can look back at certain phases in my life and I was like, oh yeah, I went down that rabbit hole and that rabbit hole and that rabbit hole. Um, and so I assume that's what everybody else wants. And they freaking don't.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Exactly, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:45

They freaking don't. Now, some of them might might, and if that's the case, then we can provide them a vault of information, but like we're not gonna make that the main learning journey. Um, now if I look at my four line, my four line has opportunities come to me through my network. So it's really frustrating for me if I am in a certain uh kind of learning experience, especially if it's business related, and there's no depth of connection available. Now, will everyone, if there is that available, will everyone take advantage of that? No, I think about my husband, he's a three-five. He doesn't care. He didn't want to go deep with people. He just wants to know everybody, but he doesn't want to like go super deep with them. So, you know, like he's gonna need something different than me. Um, so I think I think that's a big part of it is just first recognizing how you like to learn, and then realizing other people are gonna need different things. And you can't be everything to everybody. Uh, but at least going through the thought exercise of if I was a three, five, how might I like this to be a design versus a two, four versus, you know, um three, six, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Yeah, no, it's interesting because we all learn differently, right? Even just outside of the human design world, um, every everyone, you know, learns in a very unique and different way. Some people are super visual, some people are auditory, some people have all of those things, right? Like, so that's all the kind of stuff that we want to be thinking about, I think, too, in terms of like even the delivery of the course and stuff like that. So when we are thinking about who these these courses are gonna be for, but at the end of the day, too, it does start with us, right? Like that's kind of where that that resonance comes from. And it's so interesting. Like when I look at why, like, why would I be attracting so many one lines, right? Like in just in general, it's like, oh, well, duh, because like I gotta go deep. Like as a two-for, I want to go as deep as humanly possible into the stomach. And that's why I can't do surface level stuff. Like it makes me, whether it's just like a mini course, no matter what it is, even like a three-day challenge, stuff like that that I've done. Like, I'm like, I have to reel myself back like all the time, like giving them too much information because that's the way I'm built. That's the way that I'm just I really want like to go as deep as possible. But I can see how a one-line would appreciate that. But a lot of other people, like he said, are like, okay, just how do I get this transformation? Right. And so it's a very interesting thing just to even dig into, just like, because I'm fascinated by it. Um, but that also kind of brings up that topic that we touched on just for a second, is who is this for? So when you are creating these courses, and you know, we talked about the polling and and getting some feedback and some data, which is important, but how deep do we need to be going in the okay, who is this course for? Like, is it valuable to even think about like I'm speaking to one lines or you know what I mean? Like, how specific are we getting with this truly when it comes to how we're making these?

SPEAKER_00 28:14

I've I've done it different ways with different people. It depends on the audience, how big their personal brand, like it depends on a lot of factors. I think the easiest question I could give to anyone to answer is think about 10 of your most ideal clients. Usually, if someone's building out a program, they've worked with that avatar one-on-one. So think about 10 of the one-on-ones that you had, right? And then anything that you put into the program needs to meet the requirement of eight out of those 10 people would have needed to know this in order to get the result. Because when we're when we're doing one-on-one work, it's like, you know, you have a filing cabinet in your brain and your clients in front of you, and you're like, oh, they need file 8B, and you hint to them and it's exactly what they need. But when you're productizing what you know, if you have a hundred files, you're saying, okay, what's the 10 that they need to know, and what's the right order and sequence to put them in? So it's all about discerning really what to leave out rather than what to put in. Um, and so that's why I like the metaphor, the the thought exercise of okay, let's like literally put eight pictures in front of me of eight clients that I've had and or 10, and would eight of them need to know this. Okay, yes, then it belongs in the program.

AI Efficiency Versus Authenticity

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Okay, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. So let's talk about AI, because it is definitely a big piece of it. You know, I mean, it's moving at a quick pace. I've been using it since the day it came out, and really just because I wanted to, like, what is it about? I needed to, I needed to know like that's just that's just who I am. So um I now since then, we've obviously seen, we've seen a lot of what they call AI slop, right? Uh so I'm sure you've seen a lot of that too. But with AI not going anywhere, um, and obviously becoming a part of this whole process. Where do you think the line is really between like efficiency and authenticity? Like where where do you stand on on all of that? What's your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Oh, easy questions today. Um I'm a big fan of being your own content source. So that doesn't mean you can't work with AI to like flesh out a concept or um work with AI to ask you questions to flesh out your own thoughts further. But I am a big fan of being your own source, and I think that's what makes content good too, is it's not just putting a question into AI and seeing what it comes out with and saying, hey, that looks good.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

But when it comes from you first, that means it's backed by your own experience, your own stories, your own um moments with clients, and that's what makes it good, and that's what makes it unique. So, you know, when we work with clients, we do interviews where we're actually pulling the information out of their brain. We do work with a little of AI, a little AI to like format and structure things and like proofread, but the heart of it, the soul of it, comes from the client and their experience first.

Creation’s Course Build Process

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Yeah. Yeah. Because I really do feel like I mean, you know, I I do. I have a love-hate relationship with it. I feel like a lot of us probably do. And I am a big believer that well, first of all, what you just said, like it's gotta be authentically you because in this world that is getting who knows what it's gonna look like, right? Even in the next like three to six months, I I do feel like there's gonna be not necessarily resurgence, but I think that more and more people are going to value what a human did, let's just say. And I really love what you said. I love using AI to help us get to like the nugget of things and to like refine and you know, get to where we want to go and be efficient with it. But at the end of the day, is this completely generated by by AI? Like, did I just sit down in ChatGPT? Like all these people are like, oh yeah, you can just use ChatGPT and Canva to create a download and make a million dollars. If I see one more person talking about on the internet, I think I might lose my mind. You know what I mean? It's like, I do. Okay. Yeah, yeah, that might have worked for two people, but like at the end of the day, that's what I mean by the AI slot, right? I feel like, yeah, it'll give you a quick win, maybe. But okay, let let me let me tell me about your ad spend. You know what I mean? Like there's some other strategies there, babe, like you're leaving out. Um, and so I I just think that it can be very useful, but agree with you that I'm glad that you guys are sort of like still working with people to bring it out of them. You know what I mean? Like what you what you do is basically supercharged, right? Because everybody left to their own devices, they're gonna slim in it. It's very rare that I've, you know, that I've seen that people can like sit down and just like generate this on their own. There's you really do feel like you're in a vacuum. So I do want to kind of speak to that a little bit. Like talk to us a little bit about what you do specifically with clients who come to you wanting to create courses and how you support them in that way.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

It's I'm so blessed. I get to work with so many cool people across like like cosmetic tattooing, yeah. Like real estate investing. To yeah, we've built some photography programs as well on the business side and like the consumer side. So it's yeah, it's so and my one line loves it.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

So um, so yeah, so we work with clients. First, we evaluate what they have to work with. Some people have source content, they have a podcast, or um, they have a Google Doc, or now I'm getting, you know, here's my chat GPT outline. Yeah, they're not very good, but whatever, it's something. Um, and so first we evaluate and then we move into the clarify phase, which is like marketing. So distilling what's the offer and what's the launch strategy if they don't already have one and what's the funnel map, and like how what's the ascension? So, like, like let's talk business for a minute and get real. Cause I mean, straight up, I don't want to build a program that doesn't sell. I have no interest. Like, yeah, I could build programs for anybody on anything, but like I only work with people who can deliver results and they can prove to me that they deliver results, and then also people that um have something that I think will sell inside of their business, right? So that's the marketing phase, the clarify phase. And then we move into architect, which is like the beginnings of the IPE. So we generate like their framework, their methodology, and the visual for their methodology, which I know that you have and you know all about, right? Uh, and then the outline that's tied to that. So, what are the modules? What are the lessons? What are the resources? What are the AI tools? What like what are all the things that we're gonna build? Then we actually build them. And that's that interview process I talked about. So we interview the clients, we pull all the stories, information, everything we can. We use all of our instructional design and learning experience design to build out all of the assets related to this program before we then go to video to video anything that needs to be videoed and edit, and then finally pulling it all together inside of the client experience. So, you know, like putting it in the portal, but also what are the feedback loops? What are the testimonial loops? Um, if there's a community, what the heck is happening in the community? If there are group calls, how the heck are we making these group calls valuable? You know what I mean? Like a communication structure. How are we communicating with our clients inside of this program? So you can see it like it can become a lot, which is why so many people struggle with it, is because like on every project, there's between four and five people on my team working on it. It's hard for me to hear about people doing it themselves because I'm like, you have to be good at so many different unique skill sets to do this one thing.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

That is true.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

Um, so yeah, so that's a bit about our process, and I'm a nerd for it.

DIY Courses And Burnout Prevention

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Yeah, no, I love it. And that's so cool because again, like it itches that part of your brain. Like he's you know what I mean, like that, and that's that's what matters. It's like that's what we all want to do, is like be in alignment and do what it is we love to do. And it is a lot, right? Like, yes, I know we're told to kind of keep it simple and to do it messy and to just start taking action and things like that. But you get into it and you get into like a whole other can of worms. And I speak from experience, right? Like, so I created my first online course in 2019, early actually late 2018. I think I launched it in the beginning of 2019. And I didn't know what I was doing, you know. Like I did some coaching, I got some some guidance on it, but I still, and it was pretty high touch, but I still was like, oh, at every step of the way, I'm like, oh, okay, now I need this, you know, like now I need this thing to convert. Now I need a funnel. Now I need what? And so I think that it's really good information, what you just said for people listening. If someone is out there just like thinking about starting a course, not to discourage them by any stretch of the imagination. No, it's a hundred percent doable, but it's really great that you give them the information. Like, here's like this is a whole thing here, right? Like, and we're gonna cover every step of this process, and it isn't one size fits all, and it's gonna have to like be a lot of you know, drawing it out of you. But at the same time, we've got this. You know what I mean? And I I I highly recommend anyone out there listening to do that because it it's it, I can't imagine doing that by myself. Like that would have been really, really, really hard.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

And like there's no right or wrong, you know, like plenty of people, um, clients we worked with, they do DIY it to start. And it is really rough and ready. And you know what? For based on where their business was and what they had going on in their life, like they made the time and they made it happen. And then I have other clients who are like, I know I don't want to do this. Will you please just do it for me from the jump? Because it's it's it's more cost effective that for them to be doing what they know how to do best, like, than to go and learn all these other tiny little minor skills that the ROI on that skill is really just not there. So, like again, like there is literally no right or wrong. Um, I will say though, just if you are gonna DIY it, if that's your choice, because that's what works for you right now, give yourself more time than you think you need. Because I like unfortunately, I just got a message literally from a friend this morning, voice texted me, and he he was like, I had to DIY it because things took a turn in the business, and he is so burnt out now. He has not like gone on a date with his wife in four months, three to four months. And he just like, like, honestly, his health is challenged. And I know people who've truly burnt out because they they give everything they've got, and um, maybe a little too much because they don't realize quite what they're getting into. So just if you're gonna be aware, give yourself more time than you think you need.

Next Steps And How To Connect

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Yeah, I know that's really, really good advice. Yeah, I would definitely agree with that. Um, because like I said, it's like, oh, and now I have to do this. It's like one thing will pop up. You're right. It's really easy to sort of like get physically and mentally completely drained and burnt out doing it. So if somebody were listening, somebody out there is listening who, you know, maybe they're sitting on some knowledge that they know they could help other people with, but they feel really, really overwhelmed by building a course. What's like the main thing that you would say to them? Like the, the, the main piece of advice or one piece of advice, or something to get started?

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Uh, I think a part of it is owning what you do know. Because, like you said, most people get stuck by this idea of like, who am I to be doing this? And a little bit of an imposter syndrome. So it's that exercise of writing down all the things you've done in your life and all the things that you are proud of, and like validating yourself and owning your value. Um, and then entering whatever action it is that you think you need to take first, whether that's market research or um doing a pop-up offer or doing something like a workshop or something quick and dirty just to get your feet wet. Like when you come from that energy, that will change the result of whatever action it is that you do take.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

Yeah. Awesome. Great advice. Thank you so much for being here. Can you tell people how they can find you? Anything that I will list everything in the show notes too, like so people can find find you guys and and uh and work with you. But how do you like to connect with people?

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Honestly, I'm best at email. So uh hello at jasmonjounta.com. That's my email. You could email me there. Um, you can check out our website. It's easy to get our services guide through the website and and book a call through the website with me if you want to jam on what your program may or may not be. Um and yeah, we'll hook up, hook you up with all the the goodies in the in the show notes. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Awesome. Thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

Okay, so this conversation, I think, was a really great reminder that creating a course is not just about putting information online, right? It's about creating an experience that actually potentially, hopefully, changes someone. And a few things really stood out to me. So, first, expertise alone doesn't necessarily equal transformation. Teaching is its own skill set, and when we learn how to design learning experiences intentionally, the impact really multiplies. Second, alignment matters. So whether we're talking about using your human design or energetics, we're simply honoring how people naturally work and learn, the more aligned a program is with the creator as well as the audience, the more powerful it will become. And finally, the future of online education is not about more content, right? It's about better experiences. Programs that are thoughtful and engaging and truly built for the people that they're meant to serve. So, Jasmine, thank you so much again for being here and sharing your insights. And I know you guys are walking away with your own insights that I would really love to hear about. So, as always, hit me up over on Instagram at Rene Bowen in the DMs and let me know what you thought, or you can post about this episode and tag me, and I would Love to hear how it impacted you. And if it did, send it to a friend too. If you're watching on YouTube, hit subscribe. That always helps as well. And as always, thank you so much for being here and joining me again on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 44:12

So have a great rest of your week. I'll talk to you soon. Love ya. Bye.