00:00:00 Lucy Bedewi
I recently did a like reasons to unfollow me trend. And one of the things I said is I sometimes buy tickets on the way to the airport. And that had people horrified, but it's so low stakes. Like no one's actually going to be like this girl is crazy unfollow her, she buys tickets on the way to the airport. But it's like fun and it's cheeky. So I think it's like taking the pressure off and choosing to take advantage of these little moments in your messaging. Or you can just practice the muscle of, like, can you be a little more bold? Can you be a little more you? Can you kind of take that filter off?

00:00:31 Renee Bowen
Welcome to Tried and True with a Dash of Woo, where we blend rock-solid tips with a little bit of magic. I'm your host Renee Bowen, a life and a business coach, professional photographer, diet coke lover, and mom of three grown kids, here to walk you through all the ins and outs of identity-based marketing and how to run a business that feels like freedom. freedom. Hey, welcome back to Tried and True with a Dash of Woo. I'm Renee, your host. Thanks for being here again. So before we get into today's conversation, because I have an amazing guest for you guys. I'm so excited for you to hear her. I do have a little quick housekeeping update for you guys, because there's a lot happening over here and I don't want you to miss anything. So I'm a part of a few summits right now. I just finished the HerAI Summit, but you can still purchase the all access pass. This was a really amazing one, 30 plus speakers. And when you purchase the all Access pass, which I believe is still at the lower price, it does go up. So I'll link that below. You get access to all the recordings and all of the extra downloads that we submitted as well. And I'm also a part of the Sustainable CEO Summit, the AI edition. That is gonna run November 3rd through 5th, but the registrations are now, and that is free. And that one's a little bit different because I'm doing a quick screen share of the client concierge that I built with Claude that I'm using in my photography business. It's replacing a lot of the email communication that I had in place. And I believe that it sells the experience way better before I ever even get on a call with somebody. So that's pretty cool. And then I'm also a part this is how We Claude and this is a download and it is free and it's really cool because we're talking about like what's something that we actually have created in our businesses and then you can get access to our actual skills as well. All of those links are in the show notes. So just grab whichever ones fit where you are now. And then the second thing, it's kind of more of a tease. I'm thinking about teaching an AI class for photographers in November. I do have a busy November and I'm going to be out of town a little bit, but I'm thinking about doing an actual building class where we sit down together over Zoom and we build something real. Like this wouldn't be just like a surface level basic AI class, okay? Because I feel like a lot of us are past that point by now. And I think that really what you need the most help with is the implementation and building things are actually going to do the work for you because that's where I'm at with AI, like it runs pretty much everything on the back end of my business. So I'm going to put a link below that's like an interest list. You guys are interested in that. Let me know by signing up on that wait list and you'll be the first to know when I decide to do it. Okay. And the last thing that I want to tell you guys about is a little bit different for me. But over the last couple of months, a couple of friends of mine in the online entrepreneurial Tried and True Space, who are brilliant, amazing women with like real expertise and really great audiences asked me to help them with their brand strategy and their content. So I do coach a lot of people with brand strategy and their marketing, but in this case, I'm actually going to be creating content for them. So I'm pretty excited about it. So they wanted my marketing brain on their business, so that means, you know, working with their positioning, messaging, creating a plan, and then actually helping get that content produced and into the world. And I said yes, because I love both of them. And I have to tell you, I'm really loving doing it. It's kind of fun. It uses every part of how I work, right, at the same time, so the coaching and the strategy and the photography brain that knows what is aesthetically great. And then watching their content start to hit has been so much fun. So I thought, why not open that up to one more person, because I do have like capacity for that right now. So the right person knows what they're great at, and they're a little tired of their content not Reflecting it. They want somebody to help lead that vision and do the heavy lifting alongside them and creating that plan so that you actually get the right positioning and you can stand out in your market. So if that's you, just let me know. Hit me up over on Instagram at Renee Bowen. Shoot me a DM and we'll chat about whether that's right for you. Okay, so my guest today is Lucy Bedewi and she is a brand messaging strategist and a copywriter writer behind My Write Hand Woman. And when I tell you that she's fast, okay, I watched her go through something like 14 bios in 20 minutes on a call just recently. And it was just like, boom, boom, boom. She built her business during the pandemic. She's very young and she's very driven and she built her business after getting fired from her first job at 21, which she does tell you about here in the podcast. And I do love that story. But today we're talking about conviction. and your Messaging, which is that space between what you put on the page and whether the person reading it actually believes you. So we get into why her answer is usually no when clients ask her to make their copy sound like them, and why she considers a compliment on a new offer, a failure, and how she repositioned her own event like three times in three months. She also tells me all about the Proximity Marketplace, which is her business carnival happening in November, November 12 in Austin, and yes, there is a moon bounce. This is a very different kind of event. You guys are going to love her. So let's just jump right into my conversation with Lucy. Hey Lucy, thank you so much for being here. We just met recently and I'm already pretty obsessed with you and all your content and everything you've got going on. And I just want to just jump right into something you said to me early on and sort of when we were talking about this podcast, you were like, okay, I want to talk about this like conviction in messaging. Well, what what if does- that actually mean to you? Because I love just kind of jumping right in and figuring out how you view that, letting it unfold to see what the listener can take from it.

00:07:02 Lucy Bedewi
I love that you're someone who just hops right in. And when I think about conviction, oftentimes when people hire me to write their website or write their sales pages, they're saying, are you going to be able to make it sound like me? And my answer to that is usually no, I don't want it to just sound like you. If it was going to sound like you, I would hand you your iPhone, turn on voice memos, and stay start talking. I want it to sound like you, but if you had a thousand times more confidence and conviction in what it is that you're saying. So my view of conviction is it is that space between what you're putting on the page and what is actually being felt in the person that's reading it that they believe you, that they get on your bandwagon and they say, OK, wherever she's going, I'm going.

00:07:47 Renee Bowen
I love that because that is not something a lot of people talk about because you're right like that's one of the first things like when I talk to my coaching students about this right just in general I've heard from other entrepreneurs about hiring copywriters to help them craft this messaging and it is kind of like it ends there like what needs to sound like you it needs to sound okay well but what does that really really mean because yeah if you're working from your current state of being, most of us probably would agree that this isn't exactly like where we truly want to end up, right? Like we all have hopes, dreams, visions, at least I hope we do because that's really what kind of propels us forward, right? So I think that there's this deeper level of identity and belief that goes into all of this. And that's really what I wanted to kind of dig in with you because I want people to start thinking about it in that way. Can you tell, first of all, when you start working with somebody, can you tell when somebody doesn't fully believe in their own copy, let's say?

00:08:55 Lucy Bedewi
Absolutely. I think when I sign on a new client and someone's working with me, they're rarely paying me just to write good words for them. Some people are like, I can't write for my life. Can you just please make this make sense? And I'm like, I got you, girl. But oftentimes my clients are coming to me because they feel like they're and impostor in their own website, so maybe it just doesn't feel embodied, it doesn't feel like them, or they feel like they know they're playing too small because they're not attracting the clients that they know they could be working with. So oftentimes people will come to me because they think it's something external, they're not making the sales they want, they're not attracting the clients they want, but when we kind of peel back the surface, usually it's because what's actually on their heart and what they actually want to say, they're terrified of going there. there. So we need to take that. We need to see, okay, is there is there meat there? I think oftentimes people will be like, oh, well, if you're scared, then that's the thing you need to be moving into. But it's not that simple. Sometimes we're scared of something because it's actually left of what we want to be doing. Sometimes we're scared of something because it's too bold. Sometimes we're scared of something because our mom still watches all of our stuff and we don't want to get disowned. So I think there's so much nuance in this process. But it's really looking at, OK, where are you holding back? Or where are you pushing too much because you feel like you're holding back? if you were to bring it back, you wouldn't be good enough. And then it's looking at that before we even start writing.

00:10:16 Renee Bowen
Yeah, because it's going to inform, like you said, everything. So I want to kind of dig into that just a little bit, because I do feel like that's a really big piece of what holds so many women, especially back, right? Like we're also kind of programmed just in general to soften the message, you know, to under qualify ourselves, like that sort of like just societal social Programming, even outside of our own personal stuff, which, you know, I've always been a big believer that our copy, kind of what we put out there, it reveals a lot about our unconscious beliefs and what we, you know, truly like kind of believe about ourselves. So when you were working with someone in this way, how do you how do you get to that piece with them? What is part of your process for making sure the copy doesn't go there, if that makes sense?

00:11:08 Lucy Bedewi
Yeah. I mean, I think my process might be a little bit controversial. I really push people in my calls. I'll ask them a question and then I'll say, well, why does that matter? Well, why does that matter? Well, that's boring. How would you make that more fun? And I just keep pushing them until at some point they usually blurt something out. and it's the blurt where I'm just like, great, thank you. And I think it's that gentle balance of, of course, taking what our clients say at face value and also believing them because I work with incredibly intelligent women, but also seeing where you can tell that they're holding back and strategically asking them those leading questions that are like, now where does that go? Well, where does that go? Well, how does that change someone's life? Until they get to a point where they kind of get fed up with you you because they're like well why don't you why don't you see it yet and then they start to get maybe a little bit angry a little bit heated a little bit bolder and spicier in the call

00:12:04 Renee Bowen
I know you're probably, I don't think you're trained in NLP or anything like that, right?

00:12:13 Lucy Bedewi
I'm not, no, I'm just completely—

00:12:14 Renee Bowen
You're already doing it, though, by the way. That's what that is. And so, like, that's what I wanted to, like, call out, because, like, when I just—we were just kind of, like, exchanging voice notes and stuff over Instagram, and I'm like, this girl's already doing this. and that's what's really cool about it, because I am trained in that, that's part of how I coach and how I kind of get to those deeper unconscious beliefs, right? Because honestly, yeah, we've all got something, right? We've all got some kind of programming, some people have big t's, some have little T, whatever it is, but there's a reason why that's happening. Now, some people could argue, right, a lot of NLP practitioners would just argue, it doesn't don't really matter what that is. What matters is, do you want to change that? Okay, let's do that then instead because like, isn't it just like more time-saving to just do that? So that's kind of a lot of what we do there. But what I do is I take all of that and I do because I am trauma-informed and I'm a psychology nerd and you know, like neurology nerd. And I sort of like help people work with that, like, right? yeah, bring the unconscious to the conscious level. and make it known, decide whether you want to keep that or not, and then if you don't we can change it pretty easily, right? So what I love about what you do and what you just said is that it's kind of what you're already sort of like, you're pattern interrupting people, essentially, right? They're stuck. Like, all of us have the same thoughts, essentially, every single day, like 90% of what is running the show up here is like what we thought about yesterday and the day before and last week. But what you're doing, and when you're working with these people in this way, you're interrupting their pattern. And, you know, first of all, they asked you to. They hired you.

00:13:59 Lucy Bedewi
I mean, yeah, you hired me to push you, so.

00:14:02 Renee Bowen
You're like, okay. That, let's go. Yeah. And so I love that you're not just accepting what is at face value, because obviously, like, that's not working for you. You obviously hired Lucy for a reason to help you, okay, you better be prepared to sort of like go there with it because that's where all the good stuff is, right? Because you can tell when someone is holding back and watering it down. And what does that do to the copy? Like paint that picture. Like if you keep doing that, what is actually happening with our messaging out there?

00:14:38 Lucy Bedewi
I think it's honestly this vicious spiral. And it feels a little early in the conversation to bring AI in, but here we are. So I think what happens is we have something we want want to say. We're like, okay, I want to transform women's lives. And we have this general statement. We probably watered it down. We're afraid of what we actually want to say. And then we have this kind of general idea. We input it into whatever system we're using. We get content. We get emails. We get website headlines. And now we've built an entire marketing ecosystem with something that everybody is going to scroll past. And what's really dangerous about this is we probably did it in and Tried out. and True with a Dash of Woo, Proximity Marketplace, I just got my whole business up and running. I would have never been able to do this two years ago. But what you're actually doing is you're disconnecting yourself from what it is that you actually want to be saying and doing. And I see people have low sales for months and months and months and don't even know what's happening. And the issue is just at the root of their messaging and what they're saying. It's nothing to do with their content or their offers. And here they are, they're burning things down in a million directions. And all they needed to do was change that pin which would have been their messaging.

00:15:49 Renee Bowen
I mean, this isn't just in, you know, website copy, which is a lot of what we've been talking about, but also, also social, as well, right? It's everywhere. Yeah, because that's just an extension, or it should be, of what you're like overarching messages. And what I tell people and what I'd love to hear from you, I tell a lot of my students this. It's like, look, when you kind of dig deep and you really think about what you're doing, you know, it's like, and I think that's really, you really kind of excavate those things about you and where you want to go. And you pull them out, like only you can say them. Then that is the basis basically for the messaging that only you can deliver. And then you just sort of deliver that everywhere, right? It makes it so much easier. Why do people overcomplicate it in your experience?

00:16:42 Lucy Bedewi
I think we over complicate it because we ask ourselves, can it really be that easy? Can it really be this three word sentence? Can it really be something that a seven year old would probably grasp if they were precocious? So we look at these things and we think, well, that can't be it. And I do the same thing. Sometimes I am just so wrapped up in my own messaging. And then I go for a walk or I take a trip or I literally take a shower and I come across no Way is that the offer. That is so simple. And then I'll just tease it on my stories or do some market research. And it's always that. That's always the thing where people are like, yes, I've been wanting you to launch that for so long. And they're like, well, why didn't you say something? And they're like, well, I didn't know it existed until you said it. So I think it's just giving ourselves that permission to peel back the layers, bring it back, cut some offers out. We're always talking about building and more and more and more. What if you just like cut off half your business that you didn't like so I think it's just looking at that simplicity because marketing thrives when there is simplicity

00:17:45 Renee Bowen
Yeah, I know. I think that that's a really good point that so many of us do I mean I definitely been there myself the over complication of things because at the end of the day and I think we probably all heard this a lot it's like okay. It needs to be as simple as like could a fourth grader understand what you're doing right at the end of the day, because we're just so, so inundated and overwhelmed with all the things, whether it's on social, you know, we're always being sold to there's just so many things being thrown at us, that it's very normal for our brains to just shut off, right, because it needs to conserve energy. And when your brain is conserving energy, it is not going to respond to something that's like gonna I'm going to make it use a lot of energy to understand what the actual hell you're trying to say. So like, I mean, just a perfect example, I got like, when I'm tired, like at the end of the day, that's, that's when I give myself sort of permission to scroll a little bit because my brain's already tired. It's at the end of my day. I'm going to give myself like 10 minutes and then I'll, you know, just kind of catch up, see what's going on. And more and more, I find that I am scrolling past. If I have to stop and read tiny texts on your post, I'm 100% out. Like I'm gone. Like not even a little bit. Like I'm like, oh, that is I don't I don't care how much I love you. I'm not doing that. I want it to be easy. Yeah, like if I'm doing that, I kind of think of myself as somebody who wants to expand my knowledge and does want to learn more. And there's a lot of my social feed that does that for me, like I follow people on purpose, because I want to like expand my awareness and learn. But like, sometimes I'm like, no, no, I can't, I can't do that. So, is that part of this conversation, basically, right? Like, a lot of my listeners are, you know, most of them are creatives, a lot of them are photographers, but they're business owners, and they're all really trying to hone in on this messaging. And it seems to be like like this really illustrious, you know, idea that they can't seem to nail down completely. A lot of people will tell me this. Do you think it's because A, they're overthinking it? And if so, like what are some of the things that they can do to really stop doing that?

00:20:15 Lucy Bedewi
I personally think everyone should hire someone to help them with their messaging, even if it's just like, quote unquote, hiring your clients to have a conversation with them, a third set of eyes on things, whether it's your coach, a messaging strategist, your clients, because I think we're all going to think ourselves into a spiral when we're launching something new or when we're looking at our signature offer because I don't know about you, but in a hustle period, I could easily work a 10-hour day and that day just completely gets away from me and I've been staring at the same thing for 10 hours and I think every entrepreneur or can relate to doing that at some point. So I think that would be number one, is getting that outside perspective. But sometimes I think it's less overthinking and more the fear of missing out. So I see a lot of issues with people having too general of messaging. They're afraid to go more specific. They're afraid to have the same sentence and say it again and again. I know a lot of creatives we like to create. So the idea of saying the same sentence a hundred times in a month makes us viscerally cringe. We're like, aren't people gonna get annoyed of us? I would like to see people get annoyed of you. I would love it if someone screenshotted my story and was like, can you please stop saying this phrase? I am literally reciting it in my sleep. I would be like, great. I have hit the marketing jackpot. So it's being comfortable with boredom in your own message because for someone else, it might be the most radical incredible thing, but you haven't stuck with the same through line long enough in your content and your marketing for people to start to get to know you for one specific thing.

00:21:47 Renee Bowen
That's a really big issue, I see. I hear it from so many people, especially photographers, like, won't people get sick of me saying that, you know? Because it is true, like, marketing in general, like, at the very heart of it, that is what it is. It is figuring out what that core messaging is, and yes, that is a big piece of it. And I do also believe you need somebody else to help you with that, and not AI. And the other piece of it is saying it over and over and over and over and over and over again, maybe tweaking it slightly or whatever. Like you can say it in kind of different ways, but you're right. It is the fact that most people just, they don't commit to it. They don't, they don't stick with it long enough. They keep trying to change it like, oh, well, that didn't work in like the last two weeks. So what do I, what should I change it to? You know, do I need to change my bio? All of these different things, and we get so squirrely with, I mean, and we can call it whatever, like a lot of people do actually have ADHD, whatever, I get it. But it's that creative brain of, why didn't see immediate proof? So therefore, it must not be working. So what are you telling your clients, right? When you work with them, and you're crafting this message, and they come up with something that they love. Do you have a certain protocol that you want them to implement and stick with for a time base?

00:23:14 Lucy Bedewi
I think it depends on the business, but I think if nobody's moving from your messaging in 30 days, it needs to be tweaked. When I say trust your messaging, when I say stick with it, I don't mean say the same sentence for a year. And if people aren't buying the offer, just keep saying the same sentence. You'll know pretty quick. When I launched my event and I posted the first post for the positioning for it. I had 70 people ask for the link for it from one carousel. It worked and you'll know. Like when you have product market fit, when you have messaging fit, you'll feel like this buzziness because people will just like get it and they'll want in and it'll feel juicy and it'll feel fun. And if you don't feel that within one month, probably tweak something. With the understanding that when I say you need to really test your marketing and messaging, I mean posting seven places a day for a month, like this is not three times a week posting casual reel, like we need to go on a rampage and we're going to sprint this. So it's like going into Facebook groups and putting your messaging into that Facebook group, reintroducing yourself in every community that you're in utilizing this new messaging reels Threads, linkedIn posts. Obviously, repurpose. Have someone on your team, especially if you have a VA help you with this. I'm definitely not saying posts seven times a day if you are a solopreneur from scratch. That'd be crazy advice. But you have to get it out there. You have to know that there's enough reach because we know conversion rates, especially in 2026, are incredibly low. So the amount of people that are going to see your thing and take some sort of action is so low. And that's just the name of the game. So we need to really get it out there.

00:24:56 Renee Bowen
Okay, yeah. So like, that's one of those things where, you know, I wanted to kind of bring up that topic too of like, well, how can you tell if your messaging is lacking conviction, like we kind of started out with 30 days, okay, but consistently. Yeah. And a lot of people who are listening are probably going to be solopreneurs, maybe a lot of them haven't, maybe a lot of them aren't at that position yet, where they've hired somebody or at at least least even a VA. So if they are doing it by themselves, is there a way for them to test this in a different way, right, without burning themselves out posting? Because, you know, I know for sure if I'm telling some people that they need to post, like you said, seven times a day, their eyes are gonna glaze over.

00:25:40 Lucy Bedewi
I know, it's pretty unhinged advice. And I recognize that. And I think, you know, your seven times a day doesn't have to Tried be. and True with a Dash of Woo 7 potential clients every day and said, hey, I'm repositioning my business, this is what I'm gonna start doing. Does this Interest you Enough to hop on a quick Call and see if I Could do This for you? Or would you be willing to just like give me some feedback on this? Is it resonating for you? But it's a constant exchange of, I have this new thing, do you like it enough to do something for me? If they are willing to share it, if they are willing to save a post, not likes and comments, we're gonna kind of push those away for a minute, if they're willing to buy it, that what is the best feedback you could get if they're willing to put it in their group for you or send an email about it. These are the kind of levers that we're looking for, and it doesn't have to be this crazy burnout process of posting seven times a day, but it will take some form of you putting out things into the world. So whether that's one-on-one outreach, it's sending voice messages to people in your mastermind, or it's posting it on your Facebook page, there's so many ways to do it, but the messaging it shouldn't just live in your heart. It has to live on pages and pages. And on the internet, unfortunately, we have to talk about it a lot for people to start to get it.

00:27:01 Renee Bowen
Yeah. You know, I always tell people, you got to be your biggest cheerleader. Like, if you're not out there doing this for your business, like, most of us can't afford a PR agency, right? Like, so if you're not being the voice of your brand like that, singing your own praises is over and over again. And I mean, there are other there's creative ways to do that too. It's not like you're literally saying the exact same thing and how talking about how amazing you are. No, because the other piece of that is that it's about who's buying from you, right? So I want to kind of dig into that a little bit because I don't want to get caught in this like, you know, my messaging is this and I need to talk about it. Okay, but there's this other piece of it where if we don't get someone to... to do something with that information. Like you said, you posting that and it's gotten like 70 interactions like right away. Well, that's a really great indicator that it's working. But on the other hand, like, if you don't know, right, is that another piece of it? The other layer of it is like, who are you talking to? And how do you activate that person to feel something in the copy? How do you work through that process with people?

00:28:16 Lucy Bedewi
So much of that is empathy and humility. So I think it's really easy. We have this like sexy messaging and we're like, okay, I'm going to get it out there. And then we almost put these blinders on to what people are giving us as verbal and nonverbal feedback. It's like the best example I could give people is like when you're dating and the guy's like, oh, I'm like not looking for anything serious. And we're like, oh, but I'm cool. Like he'll change his mind. Your clients are not going to change their mind. If you're not getting the feedback you want, it's because they don't see what's in it for them. I think the best marketers have a tremendous amount of empathy for people and they always have the pulse on what people are saying and not saying. So I know if people are sending me compliments into my inbox, like, oh my gosh, what a cool offer? I'm like, I failed. And it sounds really harsh, but I don't want compliments. I don't want people saying what a cool offer. I want people to actually buy that offer. I love this offer. So usually when people send me messages like that, I'll be like, thank you so much. Like, I really appreciate the compliment. What would make this feel specifically helpful for you? And usually, and I'll ask it in different ways. Sometimes I'll ask it in like, hey, girl, like, just curious, like, I love the compliment, but I really want to like, hone this in, like, you know, or I might ask it more professionally, like make it sound like your voice. I'm not here to give you weird, awkward, cold scripts. But you have to ask people, what about this offer feels cool? Is there anything about the the offer that makes you like, okay, it's a cool offer, but like it's not really helpful for me. And if you're honest and real and casual with people, they will be honest and real and casual back with you. And they'll be like, well, I honestly just think it's like a little bit expensive. I think it's so cool, but I'm not at that place to invest right now. Cool. So the offer is not valuable. It's just interesting. And then we can use those levers when people tell us an objection to see what's under that. And then that's what we use to tweak the messaging.

00:30:10 Renee Bowen
Okay. Yeah. Yeah, really good advice because you have to be going to the source to ask them, living in our own heads and living in our own universe, even if we're working with somebody, you're still not getting that input from your potential client, right? And like for me, you know, I kind of want to segue just a second into like service-based businesses too, like photographers or freakin' Mortar, you know, places like that, because it is very similar, but it also, right, is a little bit more nuanced in a way, because yes, I feel like a lot of people get stuck in this visibility thing where I just need to get more visible, I need to get more eyes on my brand, I need to get more leads, I need to get more likes and, you know, followers or whatever. But if that's not moving the needle, like your content's not actually converting that that person into a paying client. Okay. What is, what is the first thing they need to be looking at? Because I feel like so much of what we're being told in recent times, probably within the last like year or two, especially in terms of social media, is, you know, the things that really work are these inflammatory sort of like shocking things that get people and so many people are chantel, there. Renee Bowen, so there may be a couple of questions wrapped into that, basically. But I want to kind of dig into, first of all, do we need to be doing that? Is that like a deal breaker? Or can we find a nuance there? And then as for these service-based businesses, is it the same? Or is there something different they need to be thinking about?

00:31:54 Lucy Bedewi
When it comes to those really inflammatory things, I think no. I actually think it is possible for a brand to be too bold or have too much big personality energy. I think that's what people don't talk about enough. Everyone says like, oh, you're just scared, like get over the fear and post the controversial thing. It's like, no, if you're not a controversial brand, why would you accidentally offend half your client base if you don't even realize it? I unfollow so many people because they're using chatGPT to create really like controversial Posts, and I just find them gross. They make me feel gross in my body, and I don't want those things in my feed. And I feel like I would be a great client for them. So they're obviously making a massive mistake going down that path. When you want to be inflammatory, it's because of something you actually believe in. So when I work with a client on their brand voice, we talk about what are they willing to take a bullet for? What are their beliefs where they're like, I will stand on this belief no matter what. Great. That's what we're going to be controversial about. Not controversial to get attention, but controversial to keep our belief system front and center because that's what makes people respect you. But I think headlines have to be specific. They have to be intriguing. They have to make people want more. But I definitely don't think they have to be this. Five reasons why you're a sucky human being. I don't even think we need to even go there. One of my best performing headlines that just launched a couple days ago is I said something about how I drink more water so I have to pee more at events. I saw that. Yeah. Like it's not particularly inflammatory. It's just like weird. It's like, why is she talking about like UTIs on a absolute business page? And it was because I was saying... Tried and True with a Dash of Woo with a Dash of Woo with a Dash of Woo with a conferences. Dash of Woo And it directly ties into the ethos of my event of having no speakers and having a space where people are able to have more of those magical moments. So that's what I mean by yes, we want our headlines to be hooky and interesting and fun and make people be like, okay, what is this girl saying today? But we definitely don't need to be inflammatory.

00:34:03 Renee Bowen
Yeah, no, really good point. No, I know. I saw that. And I was like, that's, but it makes people want to and tied and True with a Dash of Woo, Tried and True with a Dash of Woo, Proximity It may not be for everybody, and that's okay. Part of marketing is also repelling. You're not pizza and not everybody's going to love you, so there has to be something.

00:34:26 Lucy Bedewi
And some people hate pizza.

00:34:28 Renee Bowen
Right, exactly. You can't fix any of that. You're not going to be for every single person. And so many people are very triggered by that. That's a lot of the work that I do with coaching is getting people to drop the charge, basically, of that, right? So that's kind of like a different conversation. But I do think that it comes into play. And I do think that while people are working through that and learning how to drop the charge and create a different sort of belief in there, they can do these baby steps, like things like that, that are not not going to be like so shocking and inflammatory that even if they believe it at the core, they might not be ready, right in their body to get there yet, but they can take some baby steps to kind of get there. And that's a good example of like, all right, well, what can you sort of relate this to and use your creative brain as opposed to AI to help you frat. and is actually going to resonate, like make someone feel something that's at the end of the day. Yeah. Your content needs to make people feel.

00:35:42 Lucy Bedewi
And be specific and take a stand. You don't realize how specificity in its own right is boldness, because so many people are just trying to talk to everyone just by you talking to one person, making a real where it's just like, this real is for people who do X, Y, and Z. If you're not not that, keep scrolling. So like, yeah, exactly what you were saying. Find the low hanging fruit. I recently did a like reasons to unfollow me trend. And one of the things I said is I sometimes buy tickets on the way to the airport. And that had people horrified, but it's so low stakes. Like no one's actually going to be like this girl is crazy unfollow her. She buys tickets on the way to the airport, but it's like fun and it's cheeky. So I think it's like taking the and and choosing to take advantage of these little moments in your messaging, or you can just practice the muscle of like, can you be a little more bold? Can you be a little more you? Can you kind of take that filter off?

00:36:35 Renee Bowen
Because things like that do build trust with people. It draws in the right people and makes people who are your people lean in a little bit more and makes people who are not your people be like, okay, yeah, maybe not for me, whatever. And it's okay. At the end of the day, that's what you want. You want to refine it so that the people who are in your universe are really there for or reason you want to buy from you. So like, let's say if like for photographers or for people who, you know, it's not like we have a lot of that kind of business, you know, or maybe like people who do commissioned art or very specific type of things, right? It's not like you have like a barrage of offers that you are constantly selling, you know what I mean? It's this actual, probably higher priced service, and that kind of also needs to be taken into consideration a little bit, too. It's like, okay, well, these families might be purchasing from me, you know, once a year or once every few years, right? This is what I hear a lot from photographers, specifically from like high school senior photographers, because that's what I specialize in. They're like, well, they don't need this from me all the time. Like, maybe they have two or three kids, but like they don't need it from me all the time. I'm like, yeah, but they know people. They know people, right? And you are also a person. So like, even if you're not offering other things for them to actually purchase from you ongoing, you still sort of want them in your universe so that you can continue to stay top of mind and be able to refer you to their friend who does need you as well. Let me know your thoughts on that, because I know my thoughts on it. I want to know how you would sort of like speak to that person who says that to you.

00:38:18 Lucy Bedewi
I think when it comes to having like a seasonal business or especially like wedding photographers too, it's like one wedding, maybe they refer you to their younger sister. I think it's just, this is where I get my like dash of woo, is I truly believe like energy anywhere is energy so by you putting out this post that's really speaking to someone's desires or being really specific, like this is the senior I want to work with. Someone is going to think of their uncle's son in Wisconsin who happens to be traveling to your state and is like, you have to work with this person. The way you view photography is exactly right for his personality and there's going to be a match and no one can do that if you're not specific. So it's, it's almost just like keeping on the the course, continue to putting out your art, continue to talk about the desires, talk about your differentiation. That's huge. I know people that will hire makeup artists that are like $2,000 for one face just because they can do like a Bridgerton storybook kind of look. Right. So it's like capitalize on the things you're really good at. And not just like that I have good customer service, like go so much deeper and just be like, what is it that I can do that nobody else is able to do? And then that needs to be front and center in your marketing always. Good advice.

00:39:36 Renee Bowen
Okay, yeah. Really good advice. Then, you know, sort of like building your confidence muscle to actually do it, you know, is kind of another thing. Like I was talking about before, a lot of people have like those issues, you know, I hear that a lot from people. But I do think that when people dig into this, right, like they decide to look at it instead of just keep running from it and just be like, oh, I don't, that's so uncomfortable. I don't, I don't know what to do. So I'm just going to keep doing this thing that doesn't work when they instead choose to face it and deal with it, hire someone like you to like pull them through the process or work with a coach to like pull out some of these things when they choose to do that piece of action. And I agree with you about that, that energetic piece of it, because that is a very, very, very bold statement that you are making to yourself. Yes, but you're also making it to the universe and be like, no, yeah, I'm done. I'm done doing that now. And now I'm doing this. It's like, you know, you shift your focus from this from what wasn't working to, I'm not 100% sure where this is going. But I know that this is the direction I want to go in. And I want to get some more clarity on what that is. You know, I feel like the least that you can do, right? If you're listening to this, and you feel that you're dealing with a lot of this, maybe you call it stuckness, or maybe you're like, I don't know what to say or whatever, then and, you know, taking an action to move in that other direction that you want to go to is literally the best thing you can do, just in general. So we're gonna talk about in a second where people can find you to work with you, because especially if you like, if you're listening and you respond well to be like, just please tell me what to do. Like, lucy's really good at that.

00:41:25 Lucy Bedewi
I am that person. If you don't respond well to that, we might not.

00:41:28 Renee Bowen
Yeah, she's just gonna tell you, like, you know, it's just gonna be like, yeah, that bio sucks, I, you know, let's change it, right? Like, so that is a really important thing to know about yourself too. But I want to talk about your event, because the event that you're putting together is very different, very unique, a lot like, you know, you and the content that you produce as well. I had never seen anything like that before. So talk to us a little bit about that, because I've Not only because I think it's really awesome that people need to know about it and they might want to get involved, but also because it is a very good example of when you do lean into your own creativity, when you, you know, when you close chatGPT and step away from the constant feeding of the same stuff, you actually have really good ideas. And I think this is one of those. So tell people a little bit about what that is.

00:42:23 Lucy Bedewi
Yeah, so I recently created the event, the Proximity Marketplace, which is on November 12 in Austin, Texas. And I created this event because I went to 25 business conferences in 2025. And all of these events followed an extremely similar roadmap. You go in, maybe there, I always buy VIP tickets because I'm bougie and I have this like networking pre-party the day before. And then I'm basically sitting for the next two days and listening to speakers. And I love listening to speakers. I love learning. I'm a very curious person. And honestly, half of these events, I was one of the speakers. So I don't think anything is necessarily wrong with that structure. But I was just shocked that every single event was that structure. And I was like, well, that's weird. Like, why is no one doing a different event? And then I went to one event that made me crash out a little bit if we're being real, because I was like sitting for so long. And it just felt like every speaker was saying the same thing, just like with a different flavor. and I was like, okay, I get it, like I need to activate my high self, like I feel like I'm there or getting there or you know, whatever, I need to activate myself off this chair. So I was just feeling really antsy and restless and that's when I came up with the idea of the Proximity Marketplace because I realized there's no trade show like event for service-based businesses and creative entrepreneurs where we can just bounce around and collaborate and I started marketing the Proximity Marketplace as a trade show and I'll take you guys through my creative process too so you can see some of my missteps. And a bunch of people loved the idea, but I also got so much feedback that's like, I don't know if I can do a broey trade show. And I'm like, oh no, I picked the wrong word. People that are thinking about polos and spinners and having to like avoid eye contact with tables. So, yikes. So I took the Proximity Marketplace through a reposition. It's actually been through three repositions in the last three months. I've been moving really fast with the messaging, just seeing what works and iterating. So then I moved it into the world's first business carnival and that got so much more traction. People want to go have fun. They want to play games. They want a mastermind in a moon bounce, especially because I tend to attract those high energy already successful, maybe neurospicy entrepreneurs. So that was getting so much more meat to it. And then kind of this last iteration is, okay. The carnival is catching attention, people are like, I want to go to the carnival, but now I was missing that ROI piece that the trade show had. So I have now mix. And this has been obviously like the messaging word we're going to stick with. I'm really glad we've arrived at this point where it is the carnival, but really the carnival is the vessel. And I wanted to create a space where we were able to create a space where we were able to create a space where we were able we are matching people with people that they need to meet so they can build and collaborate and actually create those things in real time on the marketplace floor. So yes, it's going to be fun. Yes, there's going to be games, but all of the tables are going to be giving you expert advice for your business personalized for your next goal. Most people are in the room are already at six figures or higher. They don't need to learn about hashtags in a general workshop. They want 10 minutes with a series specialist so that they can go create a viral video in the implementation lounge. So that is the cadence of the Proximity Marketplace. And I'm so excited as I see the people who are coming in as table holders, as sponsors, as attendees. I'm like, okay, we've nailed it. This is the exact scaling, quick moving, fast decision making playful entrepreneur that I've been looking to attract.

00:46:01 Renee Bowen
Okay, so yeah, so much there. First of all, the shifting of the messaging, right? Like, I love how you did it, but also that you were willing, I think that's a very big piece of it, too. People get really stuck on, like, this is what I want. And then, okay, it might not be converting, but they're gonna stick with it anyway. And it's like, no, girl, we need to, like, if it's not working, right? That's such a great piece of feedback that you got. Because yeah, that trade show sort of mentality, it's also really another good example of how words are so powerful. Like, words are so powerful. And especially actually for that kind of person that you want to be attracting. If you're neurospicy at all, you've got a creative brain, you immediately... and in your mind about what something is and maybe even like a movie and a feeling in your body, right? Like some people are like super intuitive and like that immediate hit happens. And so the words that you use in your copy, whatever the offer is, is so important. So I'm really glad that you kind of walked us through that. And being able to do that so quickly is really pretty amazing and a skill. It's very resilient. And so there's a lot, a lot sort of there that people can take as inspiration. But the event itself is so cool because like I said, you are you're kind of sitting around you're you're learning and then maybe there's like some interaction, there's some networking or whatever you want to call it, right? Because even that word now seems like to me, yeah, a lot of words that we've just been overusing. So even if it is going to be fun, you already go in with sort of like a preconceived connotation and whatever you believe is what you're going to get back. So you want to sort of program, basically, your, you know, attendees to be intentional about why they're there, like what they're getting from it that is very different. So in essence, you've got all these people with sort of like tables, and they are able to get, are you matching them up with these people? Or like, is there an intake form? Like, how are you doing that piece of it? So

00:48:17 Lucy Bedewi
something that I don't think a lot of events are doing is mine is going to be a big event and then it's not going to be an intimate event, but it's not so big that I don't know everybody personally. So I'm going to know every single attendee, there is going to be a form so I know what they're looking for, the help they need. And then I'm going to be doing this kind of, I mean, a little bit automated, automated, but a little bit manually, where when people come into the room, I'm going to be grabbing both their hands and being like in the moon bounce, both you go because you're going to create the next idea that the world needs. I just know it. And I think I just have a knack for this of seeing like where people can help each other having like that personality match, but also because I know everybody from the forum of what are you looking for? What's your next phase in business? I will be able to match people whether it's with a table holder or whether it's attendee to attendee.

00:49:05 Renee Bowen
That's awesome. So okay, it's gonna be a I'm going to put this in the show notes for people because this will air before that. Perfect. So who is it really for? Like what kind of people are going to be going? Like what, you know what I mean? Like I want to make sure like people listening understand sort of like a bigger picture of like what they could expect from the kind of people who are going to be there.

00:49:30 Lucy Bedewi
Yeah, so I've been kind of famously saying it's not a lot of newbies. So a lot of newbies, they tend to want to consume a lot, so they want to get like those talks that are about different things in the industry. There's none of that. So then already it's a more advanced, growing, scaling, creative entrepreneur, service provider or coach. That's kind of who's going to be in the room. It's already from who's buying tickets. It's community leaders. It's people with their own events. It's people who are just inspired by my weirdness and want to build weird. Tried, people who feel like they're a little left of doing what the industry's doing, like if masterminds are trending, they're going to do something totally different. So it's people who want to break rules, bend things, and also people who are very fast. Fast decision makers, they kinda get a vibe check from someone and they're like, great, are we going to do this? Let's do This. So that is like the psychographics behind who's going to be there. Most people, even attendees have kind of hit their first six figures in their business, or they have a very high-powered corporate career that they're ready to just boom, launch a business with it. And then table holders are a little bit more advanced than the attendees in terms of where they are in their business. But honestly, it's just a matter of the kind of experience you want to have on the day. If you want to be more of like a giving your expertise role and actively trying to attract clients, you'd probably be a great table holder versus if you want a day of moving and building and receiving a lot of different Information and finding People to collaborate With, you Probably make a better Attendee. So it's not like if you're this person attendee, if you're this a table holder, it's also the experience you want to have at the carnival.

00:51:10 Renee Bowen
I love it. That's perfect because that kind of tells me immediately. And yeah, I had told you this, I was like, oh my God, that was totally right up my alley, but I'll be in Mexico. So

00:51:17 Lucy Bedewi
I know we're gonna miss you. You'd be so great.

00:51:20 Renee Bowen
I'm like, this would be so fun. Because the fastness of it especially is like exciting to me especially because I've been in this business for so long and you know what I mean like those of us who are like me who have been in this a while and we've been you know whether it's like doing different things or not like just been in this entrepreneurial space for a while yeah I'm definitely one of those people who it's like okay if you're doing that I definitely don't want to do that I want to do something completely different yeah and and I love being in community, in person, because that's a really big difference I have found, especially, you know, obviously since pandemic, that it activates something else, right? It's an energetic thing. I don't, there's, there's, I'm sure there's neuroscience to explain it, but really, it really is true that when you are in the physical space with people who are also sort of like sparking you and triggering you to think this and like so many good things happen in those places. And I'm, I'm what I would call an introvert. Like I definitely classify myself as an introvert. A lot of people don't realize that, but I love to extrovert on my terms, right? Like when I know it's time, but like at the heart of it, I am an introverted person. And so, you know, I think that even if you're listening and you are sort of in that place, I think there is, you should lean in and consider it regardless of whether you think you're a little too to yourself, right? Because you never know what is waiting in that room.

00:52:52 Lucy Bedewi
You really don't. Yeah. An in-person is huge. I mean, I have like truly exploded my business through in-person events, attending and speaking. And I think there's an in-person event for everybody. And I'm so glad that so many more people are innovating, especially being the event event host of the Proximity Marketplace. I think I'm just everybody's first line when they have a crazy idea. They're like, hey, can I talk to you on Zoom? I have like a crazy event idea. So I love that I've like gotten this secret reputation as well among event hosts. So it just when you choose to do something bold, people see that even if you don't think that they see it, they're talking about you and they're referencing you in room. So it's like just don't be afraid. to do the thing that you know you're meant to do.

00:53:38 Renee Bowen
Yeah. And I mean, like the whole reason you created this business in the first place is because you're young. You're still really young to be doing all of this, which is super impressive. But you, you know, had an idea about, you know, what it was going to go like and had a job. Even you're like, wait a second, this is this is so not what I want my life. And you went to travel. So essentially you created your whole business based on what you wanted. Did you always like, that's a really cool question that I think a lot of people don't really kind of dig into is like, did you sort of like already know that? Or did it take going down this other route for you to see the contrast of like, oh, yeah, no, that is not what I want. And so did that help you get that vision of what you do want? You know what I mean?

00:54:26 Lucy Bedewi
Yeah, I think yeah, it's like that chicken and an egg. Yeah, um, I I'm always really clear on what it is that I want. I'm always really bad about the timeline for how that's going to happen. So I always knew I was going to be an entrepreneur. I wrote in my journal when I was like in high school or college, I was like by 25, I'm going to have my own business. Well, then I ended up getting fired at 21 after 90 days and I was in the pandemic and I was so lonely and and sad and I was like, well, I need to take all of this energy and put it somewhere. So I was like, 25, 21, who's counting? And I was like, let me just see if I can build it now because then after the pandemic, I can go travel the world with a remote business that hopefully makes I wanted to make like 250K a year. For me, that felt like a really comfortable money. And so I just got building and I just worked 18 hour days and I was like, I'm not stopping until until I make this happen. And I think maybe some of you can hear my advice and you're just like, I don't relate to you at all. And other people who are listening might be like, yeah, I will hold myself up and I will do this for 30 days. And I think we all have really different styles, but I've always been that person of like, if I want something, it's happening. It might not look pretty. It might be real scrappy, but it's gonna happen.

00:55:39 Renee Bowen
I love that because a lot of people, they'd want that, but they get really hung up in the perfectionism. Do you know your Human Design? by the way?

00:55:47 Lucy Bedewi
I do. I'm a manifesting generator.

00:55:49 Renee Bowen
Duh. I knew that. But like, do you know your profile lines, funny enough? I don't. Okay. I'd be really interested to know a little bit more about your chart. It's not shocking at all that you're a manny Gen, but I, you probably are not a 5-1. I don't think you would, I would be really shocked if you had a 1-line. I think you, you like, you do thrive on experimentation too, like are you okay with like finding out like that didn't work, I'm going to pivot?

00:56:17 Lucy Bedewi
Yeah, I would say so.

00:56:18 Renee Bowen
Yeah, you probably have a 3-line somewhere in there. I'd be really interested to know if you have a 3-line. to know.

00:56:23 Lucy Bedewi
Yeah, I love experimentation. I think it's like that's, that's the fun part about business is we get to like create stuff and then people might hate it or they might love it. And I think I've, I don't take a lot personally. So it's completely, I don't mind failing. I mean, I would way rather fail than like do something medium for three years. So I think it's just that speed of like iterate, move on, iterate, move on.

00:56:47 Renee Bowen
That's awesome. Yeah. So either a three line or 6-Line because a 6-Line is kind of like a 3-Line in the beginning of their lives and then it moves. The 6-Lines are really cool because they have like three different phases. And so it's, I don't know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put it out there that you might be a 4-6. I don't know.

00:57:01 Lucy Bedewi
Now I need to know. I know

00:57:02 Renee Bowen
I need you to run your chart. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I just wanted to kind of segue into that because I think it makes a difference. Like leaning into, and that's really what human design is about. It's just like basically like another self-development tool to help you lean into what what You're good At. Some people are really good at this and some people are really good at that. And life is too short to not figure that out and lean into it. And I love that you are willing to do it messy and willing to do it experimental. And again, I know guys she's young, but if you're listening and you're in your 50s like me, it's not too late for you to do that shit too. Like let yourself off the hook. This is something I see all all the time, all the time in my coaching, you know, people are so afraid to try something different or implement a new piece of messaging or whatever. Has it been working for you? If the answer is no, then why are you continuing to waste time? Yeah, I know you're on my page with that.

00:58:04 Lucy Bedewi
Yeah, absolutely. And I think I think so much of it is that perfectionism piece is like we don't move until we think it's perfect. I mean, I'll just be totally transparent with everyone on this podcast. I have no roadmap for this event that I'm putting on. No one's ever done a three-sided marketplace. Anytime I make a decision about like marketing or what to do with my event planner, like it's like the blind lead in the blind here. Like we're trying to put together something and we're just like doing our best. And I'm so confident it's going to be a great event and I'm not worried about it at all. But it's like if you are venturing into into places that no one's gone. Sometimes you have to remind yourself that you're venturing into places that nobody is gone. And it is going to be imperfect. And it is going to be a giant experiment. And it's like embracing the joy and curiosity of that.

00:58:51 Renee Bowen
Yes, that's such good advice. Yeah, thank you for saying that. Okay, before we wrap up, I wanted to ask you just really quickly, if somebody is listening and they know they are playing smaller, they're watering stuff down, they might be feeling a little too you in their have to be perfect lane sort of thing. But they know their messaging is not hitting the mark. It's not resonating with them. It's definitely not resonating with their target clients. What is one thing that they can do? What's the first thing that they should do to start that process?

00:59:27 Lucy Bedewi
I think just take a minute and see if you can figure out why. Just like take a beat and and ask yourself, like, why is it not resonating? Or do you feel like there's something that's not fulfilling to you? And then I would honestly just get a sheet of paper and start like jotting down what comes to mind. I think we've lost the art of pen and paper. And then once you kind of get a feel for it, then you'll know who you have to hire. So usually it's going to be, sometimes you have to hire a coach or a mindset coach because you realize the internal issue is like you and your identity. That is so valid. Tied, and I would never tell someone to hire me if they actually need a coach. But maybe it's you're like, you know what you want to say, but you don't know how to say it. And that's that articulation piece. That's when you bring in the messaging strategist, or maybe you know both of those things and you just know that your brand is like really boring and like really dull. And then that's how you know, it's time for some sort of redesign. So but I think once you get really like if you can find the pinpoint of what's going on and honestly, anyone good at their field will be able to find this for you. a coach will be able to tell you a good service provider if you don't need a coach and a service provider will be able to tell you, hey, you actually need a designer or you need a coach. So if you're surrounding yourself with your group of people who have your best interests in mind, and they also are very good at their craft, they will point you in the right direction. So it's kind of this dance between like lean on your community, but also go inward and then just start fixing things, start putting things out there, start testing things. So much of this work we do like in our living rooms and like drive ourselves crazy over a two-week period when you could have just figured it out by like going into a networking call on Zoom, talking to 20 women and then being like, oh yeah, my idea was like terrible. Why didn't I just like say it to 20 people like last week?

01:01:15 Renee Bowen
Yeah, you got to get some data. Yeah. Get feedback from like real actual people. Yeah. That matters. And again, I think that you do bring up a good point too is that, you know, that the people that you do sort of like reach out to because like, yeah, there are a lot. There's a lot out there. So trust yourself, I think enough to know I resonate with this person, you know, I trust this person. And so chances are, like you said, that person will have enough knowledge and integrity and experience to be like, okay, actually, I think what you need is more in this light first, then we can kind of build from there. So yeah, that's really good advice. Thank you so much for being here.

01:02:01 Lucy Bedewi
Thank you. Yeah. It's so fun. I could... we could do like three hour episode if we didn't have any clock.

01:02:06 Renee Bowen
Totally. Yeah. No, for sure. We can go all the time. Yeah, I know. All kinds of side quests. But thank you so much again. I'm going to put everything in the show notes for people. And like, I think Instagram is where you like to connect with people, right?

01:02:19 Lucy Bedewi
I do love Instagram. Yeah, definitely connect with me at My Write Hand Woman, Write, spelled like writing. And feel free to use me as that resource. If you listen to this episode and you're just like, is it my messaging? Is it my offer? Is it my visual branding? I mean, I'll be honest. Like, so if you don't want honesty, then maybe don't reach out with those questions. But you know, if you want someone to kind of point you in the direction of what I think needs to be fixed first, I've worked with hundreds of clients. So I'll probably be able to see it pretty quickly. So feel free to send me a DM or check on my website, myrighthandwoman.com or slide into my DMs and ask to come to the event because I'd love to have you at the event.

01:02:56 Renee Bowen
Yeah, for sure. We're gonna put all of that there for you. But yeah, I know when I say she's fast and honest, I mean, I like actually have proof of that. We were on a call for an event just recently. And I think you did like how many you looked at how many bios and how many minutes?

01:03:11 Lucy Bedewi
Oh, it was so many. Taylor told me it was like 14 or something in like 20 minutes.

01:03:15 Renee Bowen
It was like, boom, boom, boom. And I was like, okay, yes, this is what I'm talking about. So yeah, reach out in any of those ways. But thank you again so much. And yeah, I'm excited to see how the event goes and to hear after, you know, some feedback on it, like for sure.

01:03:35 Lucy Bedewi
Thank you so much. Yeah. Bye, everyone.

01:03:37 Renee Bowen
Okay, I loved that conversation so much. And I want to pull a few things out for you guys before the first one is that I keep coming back to this thing that Lucy was talking about where she says she doesn't want your copy to only sound like you. She wants it to sound like you with a thousand times more conviction. And I think that's really a big deal because the way that you write right now, coming out of you from what you currently believe about yourself is so important, right? Your copy is basically a printout of your unconscious beliefs. If it feels watered down, that's good information about where to look first. The second thing is the fear. I love that she pushed back on the whole, if it scares you, do it, advice, because sometimes fear means the idea is too bold for where you are, and sometimes it means it's a little left of what you actually want. Sometimes your mom watches all your stuff, right? So figuring out which fear you're dealing with is a big part of this actual work. And then third, a compliment is not a sale. If people keep telling you that what you offer is super cool and nobody's buying, get curious and ask them what would make it feel helpful for them specifically, because that answer is where, well, that answer is just gold, essentially, right? And when you hit that message, give it like a real 30 days. So if posting seven times a day makes you want to lay down on the floor, remember that her version of seven a day can be seven people that you reach out to directly. And the last one is that specificity is bold all on its own. You don't need rage bait hooks or five reasons that you're failing posts to get attention, right? You need to say exactly who you are for and let the right people lean in. So if you loved Lucy as much as I did, go find her on Instagram. I'll put everything below for you. She told me that it was cool for you to slide into her DMs if you want to honest take on where your messaging is at and everything like that. And if you are anywhere near Austin on November 12th, or you want to go, hit the link below too for her Marketplace, her Proximity Marketplace. It sounds so fun. Go play some games for me since I will be in Mexico during that time. And all those links are below for you guys in the show notes. Quick reminder that the interest linked for my November AI building class is in the show notes too. If you're interested in that, let me know. And if this episode gave you something to think about, it would mean the world to me if you left a rating or a review at ratethispodcast.com slash Renee Bowen because that's how more people find this. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you guys have a fantastic rest of your day and your week. Talk to you soon. Love you. Bye.