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<v Michelle Knight>I know when my intuition is like really locked in and really guiding me when I can feel calm and safety in my body.

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<v Michelle Knight>And as someone who is very anxious, you know, and like moving all of the time, and that's kind of my natural state, it's been really easy for me to recognize that.

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<v Renee Bowen>Welcome to Tried & True with a Dash of Woo, where we blend rock-solid tips with a little bit of magic. I'm your host Renee Bowen,

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<v Renee Bowen>a life and a business coach, professional photographer, Diet Coke lover, and mom of three grown kids. Here to walk you through all the ins and outs of identity-based marketing and how

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<v Renee Bowen>to run a business that feels like freedom. My guest today is somebody that I absolutely adore.

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<v Renee Bowen>Michelle Knight is a storyteller, personal branding coach, and the founder of Brandmerry, where she spent nearly a decade teaching women to build brands and businesses rooted in their real stories.

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<v Renee Bowen>Her first book, The Beautiful Climb releases in October. Her work lives where strategy meets the intuitive. She believes owning your true story is both the smartest business move and the most powerful act

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<v Renee Bowen>of creation, and that you can't call in a life that's yours while performing somebody else's. She lives just outside of St. Louis with her husband and son,

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<v Renee Bowen>building life and work on her own terms. And she's a little bit, so I'm not going to go into it too much here,

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<v Renee Bowen>but I met her at the retreat, immediately felt drawn to her. I knew, I just knew she was like a Virgo sister.

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<v Renee Bowen>I call her like my little sister. It's funny, like you'll hear us talk a little bit, well, you'll hear us talk a lot about how we met, but also our astrology,

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<v Renee Bowen>because we're both very into that because we're Virgos, that's what we do. We talk about our North Nodes, and I talk about how my North Node is Pisces,

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<v Renee Bowen>and you know, how that's really impactful for somebody who's a Virgo. We kind of after we stopped recording, she and I just of course chatted,

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<v Renee Bowen>you know, for a good 10-15 minutes after her North Node is also Pisces, which means her South Node is Virgo too. So it's kind of a,

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<v Renee Bowen>it's just really funny to me how we're drawn to people. And I'm just like really grateful that I trusted my own intuition to put myself in containers like

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<v Renee Bowen>MixerMind to, you know, be in the room physically with people who are super aligned.

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<v Renee Bowen>Like I've met some really incredible women being in MixerMind this past couple of years, and I'm excited to go on a retreat again in November.

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<v Renee Bowen>And it's just another reminder to myself, but also maybe to you if you are also the introverted sort of type to like want to stay in your own lane and not really kind of put yourself out there.

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<v Renee Bowen>Honestly, it's just been a great decision for me to insert myself. It was uncomfortable. Absolutely. But it has propelled me to grow so much in the last couple

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<v Renee Bowen>of years. So if that's been on your mind, maybe, maybe you needed to hear that too. Anyway, I love Michelle. She's a delight.

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<v Renee Bowen>And she is so fun to talk to. So we get into all things, good girl, eldest daughter, over functioning from that to,

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<v Renee Bowen>you know, the ideas for this book to grief, like she's dealt with so much grief in her life and where all of this is taking her. And it's just really inspiring for all of us to be able to witness that.

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<v Renee Bowen>And I know you're going to love her just as much as I do. So let's just jump in. Michelle, I have wanted to have you on this podcast since we met in Mexico,

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<v Renee Bowen>and I am so excited to have you here. Thanks for being here.

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<v Michelle Knight>I'm so excited to be here, but also just to catch up and see your face.

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<v Renee Bowen>I know. Selfishly like, okay, well, this just might be like a Virgo session for us.

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<v Michelle Knight>I mean, I think it's fitting that we finally scheduled it during Virgo season in September, both of our birthdays.

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<v Renee Bowen>So both of our birthdays are coming up. So for you guys listening, just like real quick, Michelle and I met at a retreat last November,

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<v Renee Bowen>and it was like the first night and I told myself, which is very much not me, that I was going to force myself because I had a welcome dinner. And I knew a couple people there,

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<v Renee Bowen>but I was like, no, I'm going to go and sit at a table where I don't know anybody, and I'm going to make myself like meet some of these other women that I've been in this group with that I have not really engaged with because I'm such an introvert.

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<v Renee Bowen>And so I sat down and Michelle sits down, and immediately I can feel her Virgo energy. And I'm like, Oh, okay, this is a safe place.

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<v Renee Bowen>And like,

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<v Michelle Knight>I think you even called it. Like, are you a Virgo?

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<v Renee Bowen>She's like, Oh, hey. And I was like, Okay, we're good. We're good. So anyway, instant, instant friendship and bonding. And it was just such a great week.

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<v Renee Bowen>And so now, we're going to talk about your book that's coming out. We're going to talk about what is going on with your business, because like you have completely sort of like let a lot of things go,

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<v Renee Bowen>you went all in on some stuff. And we're going to get into all of that. But I want to kind of start with a little bit of a juicy topic that I think is very timely that you have a lot of context

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<v Renee Bowen>for. I definitely do as well. And I know a lot of listeners can really identify with which is like this idea of good girl conditioning that we see a lot of especially in the entrepreneurial space.

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<v Renee Bowen>So I think a lot of us, these successful, strong women that we all know, I don't know if they would necessarily ever identify themselves that way.

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<v Renee Bowen>But I see it a lot. I know you do too. So what do you think it actually kind of looks like in adulthood? How did it maybe show up for you?

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<v Renee Bowen>What are you kind of seeing? I just kind of want to like poke around this little space for a second.

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<v Michelle Knight>Yeah, it's really interesting, because I would not have classified myself as like a good girl. But as I've dove into kind of the different definitions of what that looks like,

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<v Michelle Knight>for me, it's centered around responsibility, right? So being the good girl in the sense that you just always took care of things.

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<v Michelle Knight>You were always the responsible one, you were always the one that was reliable, you were always the one that would follow through, we could count on you to get straight A's,

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<v Michelle Knight>right? I'm going back in time, you know, but get straight A's, do well in school, be the best at sports, take care of your shit, essentially,

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<v Michelle Knight>and we didn't really need to worry about you. And so that like good girl conditioning, at least for me, really just built up layers and layers and layers of not being able to

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<v Michelle Knight>ask for help, not even recognizing when I was struggling. Also, sometimes knowing that I was,

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<v Michelle Knight>but like being able to admit that to someone else was a sign of failure. And so you couldn't admit that to someone else. And so that's what I've really come to identify as like the good girl responsible,

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<v Michelle Knight>we don't have to worry about her, she's got an altogether mentality that unfortunately, you know, carries with us into adulthood in our relationships and becoming an entrepreneur just shines a big old light in your

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<v Michelle Knight>face and you have to confront it.

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<v Renee Bowen>100%. I know for me, like, you know, eldest daughter as well, you know, and I think you are as well. Yeah. So again,

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<v Renee Bowen>Virgo, eldest daughter, like, okay, strikes right there, two strikes. I followed so many, like therapists who specialize with like this whole like eldest daughter,

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<v Renee Bowen>like kind of good girl thing. And I think that, you know, I'm glad that we are, you know, kind of talking about it in a different way now,

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<v Renee Bowen>because I don't think I even really intuited that for a long time. I just like, you know, assumes like that's just what you do.

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<v Renee Bowen>And that over functioning shows up. So that's kind of what I wanted to talk about for a second. Because like I know for me, and especially like I'm a Human Design generator,

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<v Renee Bowen>and I can do a lot of things, I have sustainable energy, but doesn't mean I should.

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<v Renee Bowen>Right? So like, how did that show up for you? Like the perfectionism, the over functioning? Was there like a moment when you were like,

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<v Renee Bowen>okay, yeah, like this is not I can't do this anymore. Or like, was it a physical thing that happened? Or was it more like,

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<v Renee Bowen>you know, an intuition part of it or both?

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<v Michelle Knight>I think it was finally an intuition after a lot of signs that I would listen to for a short period of time,

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<v Michelle Knight>and then go back to the way that I had previously been functioning. And because that was really easy. And something I've recently recognized about myself, and I think a lot of women can relate to is sometimes the over functioning is safety.

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<v Michelle Knight>Because you don't have to sit in silence, you don't have to ask yourself the hard questions, you're just trained to keep doing and keep yourself busy and moving.

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<v Michelle Knight>And, and we default to that because we know how to do that, we know how to do that really well. And so to stop that and to sit with that is terrifying.

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<v Michelle Knight>And I avoided it for a really long time, even though it presented itself after my brother passed away years before I became an entrepreneur, it presented itself during my postpartum.

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<v Michelle Knight>And then I just decided, no, I'll just start a business, like, I'm not going to deal with this, I'll just do more, you know, it presented itself so many times in my 10 years of owning my business.

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<v Michelle Knight>But I think the moment when I was actually forced to stop was in 2022. At the beginning of the year, my husband got really,

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<v Michelle Knight>really sick. So I talk about this in the book, but my husband has Crohn's disease. And we he was diagnosed, and we had a very, very long,

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<v Michelle Knight>difficult fight with insurance as a solo entrepreneur. And he was basically bedridden for a period of time. And my everything stopped,

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<v Michelle Knight>because he was he's homeschooling our son, he was a stay at home dad for what had was going on, like four years, we were so fortunate in that way.

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<v Michelle Knight>And I was running my business. But then I had to stop, like everything just came to a halt. And that forced me, it forced me to get quiet with myself,

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<v Michelle Knight>and that's when I say the unraveling really kind of slowly started at that period of time. And it has been happening over the course of,

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<v Michelle Knight>you know, five years, really.

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<v Renee Bowen>Yeah. So what did that? Hmm, that's so hard to like, I mean, I totally get it. I've kind of been through a couple of things like that myself, but it rocks you,

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<v Renee Bowen>right? Like, it's so unexpected. So when that unraveling sort of happened, what were some of the things that you did,

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<v Renee Bowen>because you've been running a business for a long time. And, you know, you've been teaching about storytelling and an identity and things like that for for a long time.

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<v Renee Bowen>So what sort of like had to change, first of all, you know, in the way that you approach things like that, just like in as the business owner and like,

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<v Renee Bowen>you know, the breadwinner really, like, right. So that's the other piece that you and I kind of connect on because like a lot of women that I speak to,

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<v Renee Bowen>just as a side note, I definitely have been in pockets and I have been in one for a while of being the breadwinner. And that's like an extra added,

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<v Renee Bowen>like, we like it, we want it, you know what I mean? Where I at least I'm like, hey, you know, I'm glad and I'm grateful that I can do it and I'm tired.

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<v Renee Bowen>So like, first of all, how did that all sort of change a little bit when that unraveling started to happen? And what really support yourself during

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<v Renee Bowen>that time? Like, you know, things that got you through it?

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<v Michelle Knight>It was really interesting because you mentioned, you know, storytelling and obviously branding. At that point in my business,

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<v Michelle Knight>I had really been riding this demand for marketing strategies. So more specifically, like SEO,

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<v Michelle Knight>Pinterest, like I had started with branding and storytelling, which felt very authentic. And like, this is the direction that I want to go. And I think that is important because this is kind of that like high performer kicking in.

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<v Michelle Knight>And then people started asking me about my SEO and my Pinterest during COVID. And I just rode that wave.

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<v Michelle Knight>And I started to generate a lot of money. Like I was at the highest at the end of 2021 is where I was revenue wise, I had tripled my revenue,

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<v Michelle Knight>but I hated what I was teaching. Like I really, I was good at it. And I can't do this.

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<v Michelle Knight>I am really good at this, but I don't want to do this. And I literally couldn't tell anybody because it was making all of my money and like I was providing for my family.

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<v Michelle Knight>And so that was the first thing that happened is when I was forced to slow down and sit with it. And I had to restructure my business.

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<v Michelle Knight>I was like, well, I definitely am not going to keep doing what I don't want to do. Like, this is taking enough energy for me to just like record a YouTube video.

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<v Michelle Knight>Like I always say, like if I had to sit down and record a YouTube video on marketing, it takes me three times the amount of time and energy than if I were just to sit down and talk to you about storytelling,

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<v Michelle Knight>because that's such a, it's, it's my purpose, right? It's so aligned that it's so easy for me to do. So that was like the first shift that I had to make.

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<v Michelle Knight>And I did not want to make it because that was really difficult to make with my content. And it didn't happen right away. I wasn't in a place to make quick decisions.

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<v Michelle Knight>So it kind of happened over the course of the rest of the year, we made some shifts with my programs. But you know, the, the big thing was also just thinking about where my priorities lied.

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<v Michelle Knight>And this was a huge thing for me, and like, especially my son, like I started my business to be home with my son.

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<v Michelle Knight>That's why I decided to do it. And then being the main breadwinner, I was so burnt out and I did not even realize it,

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<v Michelle Knight>you know, providing for your family and being the sole income provider without a salary is a whole level of anxiety that people do not talk about.

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<v Michelle Knight>And I actually found the opposite of freedom in it, but I didn't realize it until I stopped moving.

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<v Michelle Knight>You know, I realized for me personally, and some people love it. And I love that. But for me, it was just the corner office executive position dressed up in another outfit.

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<v Michelle Knight>And I had tried to escape that. And then I ended up creating the pressure again. And what really kind of showed up for me was I found myself just loving homeschooling my son.

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<v Michelle Knight>Because the biggest thing for us was stability for him during that transition. And so that's one of the reasons people are like, well, you could still run your business.

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<v Michelle Knight>But I was like having to mom like way more than I'll be honest than I was having to mom before because my husband was taking care of the fun stuff.

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<v Michelle Knight>And so I got to be part of more of the fun stuff and the homeschooling. And I just I fell in love with it. Now we're five years later and you know,

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<v Michelle Knight>we're still doing it and we love it. And the boys in fifth grade and I'm the full time homeschool mama, you know, but there were these things that made me realize that there was so much that I thought I was going for stuff that I thought I wanted that

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<v Michelle Knight>was just like pre conditioned expectations and labels just dressed up in a different way through entrepreneurship.

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<v Renee Bowen>Yeah. And that's all tied into this identity stuff, this good girl stuff, this over functioning stuff, right? It's like, like you said before earlier,

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<v Renee Bowen>how entrepreneurship really triggers all of that. And I think a lot of us can probably identify even if they're not the breadwinner,

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<v Renee Bowen>but I know I definitely can like, you do you kind of wake up at I did it at least and realize like, wait a minute, I tried to create this for freedom.

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<v Renee Bowen>I tried. I wanted to create this for freedom. I wanted to create this so that I could spend more time with my kid or my kids. That was definitely my motivation as well.

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<v Renee Bowen>And then one day I don't have enough time to like ask them what's going on with them. Like that's kind of where I was.

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<v Renee Bowen>And it was really like, yeah, so when you get to that place of I don't want to do this anymore.

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<v Renee Bowen>And I don't want to like continue going down this path. So for you, was it sort of like an identity sort of switch?

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<v Renee Bowen>Did you have to kind of be very intentional with that, especially like with your storytelling and things like that? Or was it just sort of something that you just started and then like the path appeared?

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<v Renee Bowen>Does that make sense?

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<v Michelle Knight>Yeah, I think I started and the path appeared because I just did not have the mental capacity to overthink it, which was great. Because I can do that so easily.

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<v Michelle Knight>Like that whole season was such a gift and like me just flying by the seat of my damn pants for like the first time in my life. I think,

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<v Michelle Knight>honestly, it was like kind of survival mode for about a year after that until my husband started feeling better and getting on medicine and a proper,

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<v Michelle Knight>you know, treatment. And then I just fell apart. And I went therapy. I went to therapy to save my business,

00:17:09.140 --> 00:17:17.860
<v Michelle Knight>because I was like, I don't know, I'm not, I've tried working with coaches, like I can't figure this out. I need to go to therapy and figure out what do I want?

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<v Michelle Knight>And then what that impact was just a whole two year journey of healing that I was not prepared for. And I am so thankful for.

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<v Michelle Knight>Because I mean, you know, I'm a big advocate for therapy, you know, and I got to finally dive into a lot of things that I had been avoiding that just kept getting buried and or showing up in

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<v Michelle Knight>my business as an entrepreneur. And that included grief, right? I talk about this a lot in my book, I lost my brother to cancer,

00:17:49.360 --> 00:17:56.900
<v Michelle Knight>we lost my mother in law to cancer, we lost my grandmother to cancer. And that's what kind of has really sparked me to act quickly.

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<v Michelle Knight>I do act quickly because of those past experiences. But I had never really sat with how I was carrying that grief through my life,

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<v Michelle Knight>because as the eldest daughter, as the responsible one, you need to be making sure that everyone else is okay.

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<v Michelle Knight>And then as you know, just from years and years of doing that, you tend to kind of just put your actual needs on the back burner. The second we bought our house and slowed down,

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<v Michelle Knight>I couldn't. And I just made the decision to start therapy and then everything changed.

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<v Renee Bowen>Right. And probably not overnight, I would assume.

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<v Michelle Knight>No, it's still changing. It's still changing now, right? And I was telling my husband this last night, I was like, my biggest thing with the book and just with all the stuff I'm creating now is to let people know that like,

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<v Michelle Knight>you don't just make one choice. You keep choosing over and over and over again. And that's really hard to do,

00:18:51.860 --> 00:19:02.620
<v Michelle Knight>but it's also so freeing and so rewarding to be like the author of your own story and intentionally choosing like what the next chapter looks like.

00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:11.580
<v Michelle Knight>I'm in book mode, so like everything I talk about is like chapters and writing and all that. But it's still happening and I'm thankful for that too,

00:19:11.600 --> 00:19:18.720
<v Michelle Knight>because I think for a long time and especially as a Virgo, because I'll be like, this is what I'm doing. And this is the way that I will get there.

00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:26.700
<v Michelle Knight>These are the check boxes. Now I'm very much like, what is the feeling that I'm trying to harness? And like,

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<v Michelle Knight>does this give me that or does that not give me that? Like I still need some sort of tracker or indicator or something,

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<v Michelle Knight>but it's just so different. And that has really just opened up a lot of different ways that I run my business, handle my relationships,

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<v Michelle Knight>my friendships.

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<v Renee Bowen>Yeah. So it sounds like there was the therapy sort of like cracked some things open, right? And I kind of want to like something that you had said really,

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<v Renee Bowen>like I can identify with and a lot of people can too, is that idea of yeah, like when you are the eldest daughter, like the responsible one,

00:20:02.140 --> 00:20:10.840
<v Renee Bowen>you do. You start to just like take on everything and you feel like it's very like leads very well into codependency, at least it did for me of like,

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<v Renee Bowen>I got to make sure everybody else is okay. And if everybody else is functioning and feeling good, you don't even know it's insidious. Like you don't even know that you're doing that.

00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:27.280
<v Renee Bowen>You, you really, at least for me, it felt like in a lot of different ways in my life, where it's like, no, I just, I'm just making sure that's handled.

00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:35.340
<v Renee Bowen>No, honey, that's codependency. And you need to let people do their own shit. Like with my kids, especially as my kids got older, that was really,

00:20:35.340 --> 00:20:42.900
<v Renee Bowen>really difficult. So I know that there's a lot that has to unravel, sort of to come up, but you're right about,

00:20:43.060 --> 00:20:50.280
<v Renee Bowen>you know, approaching it not necessarily as this like destination, right? Like, okay, I want to be getting through this.

00:20:50.620 --> 00:20:57.780
<v Renee Bowen>It is it's like this series of like, okay, now this, okay, I'm just gonna, you know, approaching it like day by day,

00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:07.720
<v Renee Bowen>lesson by lesson, and like seeing what continues to open up and get curious about what is there.

00:21:08.280 --> 00:21:17.280
<v Renee Bowen>But I feel like that, well, I know that that requires the desire and intention to sit with it,

00:21:17.340 --> 00:21:23.100
<v Renee Bowen>which is really freaking hard. And that's what you had to do. It sounds like to me, it's like sit with it and face it.

00:21:23.840 --> 00:21:32.920
<v Michelle Knight>And trust. Yes, exactly. I don't know if you can relate to this. I know a lot of women probably can, but I don't, I tried to sit down like when,

00:21:33.700 --> 00:21:41.940
<v Michelle Knight>what moments did I really trust my own intuition? Like, when did I really trust that like, and follow through with like, what I think I should be doing this,

00:21:42.100 --> 00:21:52.060
<v Michelle Knight>or this feels like the right way to do this, but ended up doing something because of what I thought was expected of me. And so to strip that away,

00:21:52.320 --> 00:21:59.840
<v Michelle Knight>and that is one of the gifts that therapy gave me was just like someone really being like, but I'm sorry, what do you want? Sorry,

00:22:00.040 --> 00:22:08.480
<v Michelle Knight>I don't know any of these other people and I don't care. What do you want was really hard. And that has been the hardest thing.

00:22:08.600 --> 00:22:16.140
<v Michelle Knight>You know, I have like these sections over the last, you know, since 2022, I'd say the last year has been me learning how to trust myself as a 38,

00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:20.140
<v Michelle Knight>almost 39 year old woman, just like, yeah, mind blowing.

00:22:20.560 --> 00:22:27.620
<v Renee Bowen>Well, yeah. And I definitely have been in pockets of that. And I'm older. And it's still, you know what I mean? It still happens. It's like,

00:22:27.620 --> 00:22:35.680
<v Renee Bowen>you know, that self trust thing is a really big, and I think that we're seeing so much of it reflected back right now,

00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:43.220
<v Renee Bowen>just in business, online entrepreneurship, female business owners, social media, all the things.

00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:52.920
<v Renee Bowen>There's a lot of noise. There's a lot of like, you got to do this, you got to do that. And I think that it's really easy. It's always been really easy to sort of like fall into,

00:22:53.760 --> 00:23:01.960
<v Renee Bowen>well, maybe I should be doing that, or maybe I should be doing that. And that I think that really happens when you don't have a strong foundation, a clear sense of like,

00:23:01.960 --> 00:23:12.000
<v Renee Bowen>who you are, and that trust, that self trust. So like, that's a really big piece of it is the self trust piece. So it is easy to even if you start out that way,

00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:21.600
<v Renee Bowen>to kind of like, get distracted by all the noise. And so what do you think I want to kind of like highlight that for a second,

00:23:22.120 --> 00:23:29.740
<v Renee Bowen>what do you think really helped you and can maybe help other people, like root back into the self trust? Because that really is like,

00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:39.740
<v Renee Bowen>like you said, like in therapy, like, what do you want? How are you designed? What is what do you like to do on a daily basis? Did you just kind of just have to go down this rabbit hole and like really root into that?

00:23:39.820 --> 00:23:47.000
<v Renee Bowen>Are there some other things that you did to give your unconscious mind proof that it was safe to trust yourself?

00:23:48.100 --> 00:23:55.860
<v Michelle Knight>You know, the first thing that I had to do is I had to stop listening to other people. And I literally just cut off all personal development from my life.

00:23:56.600 --> 00:24:05.760
<v Michelle Knight>So I think one of the things that we are really trained to do, and like, I'm a daughter of like a chicken soup for the soul, girly, you know, like I haven't done personal developments,

00:24:05.940 --> 00:24:13.180
<v Michelle Knight>I was too, you know, like, you know, and so there's there is there are there are great things in the personal development space.

00:24:13.380 --> 00:24:21.800
<v Michelle Knight>However, I think there's a time and a season for every individual person. And I was not in the season to be taking advice from anyone but myself,

00:24:21.800 --> 00:24:29.180
<v Michelle Knight>because what it had done, it is it had diminished my voice so much that like I told you, I couldn't even be like, I don't want to teach marketing anymore.

00:24:29.620 --> 00:24:37.500
<v Michelle Knight>Because it was making money, and everyone's like, keep doing that thing, you know, and that's just like one example. So I took a full break, I stopped listening to every podcast,

00:24:37.520 --> 00:24:46.800
<v Michelle Knight>I stopped investing in coaching, like outside of therapy, I did start really exploring like astrology and Human Design and other things in that like sphere,

00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:54.540
<v Michelle Knight>to better understand myself and just how I, you know, was made. And I started reading fiction,

00:24:54.540 --> 00:25:02.720
<v Michelle Knight>and it sounds so stupid, and so silly. But I say all the time, fiction has made me the happiest human being in the world.

00:25:03.080 --> 00:25:12.460
<v Michelle Knight>Because what it just allows me to do is get out of my head. And the second that I get out of my over analytical over thinking brain,

00:25:13.180 --> 00:25:20.700
<v Michelle Knight>I can hear myself clearly. The other thing that I did that seems so simple, that I don't think a lot of people talk about is I got a dang hobby.

00:25:21.380 --> 00:25:28.560
<v Michelle Knight>Because as someone who can do a lot of things, and can do them well,

00:25:30.340 --> 00:25:37.800
<v Michelle Knight>I can like be like, how do I monetize this? How do I make this into something bigger? How do I assess over this? And I started, you know,

00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:45.060
<v Michelle Knight>gardening, and I had always kind of dabbled a little bit. But I, I did that. And you know, my husband calls me a garden witch.

00:25:45.460 --> 00:25:53.360
<v Michelle Knight>Garden witch. That's my place, you know, and that's where I can slow down. And I can be by myself. And I can block out the noise.

00:25:53.920 --> 00:26:03.960
<v Michelle Knight>And that really helped me just just those two simple things of giving myself more opportunity to sit with myself and block out all the excess noise.

00:26:04.860 --> 00:26:13.000
<v Michelle Knight>So I'm just now it's been I guess a year and a half starting to get into a few like personal development things here and there.

00:26:13.160 --> 00:26:20.400
<v Michelle Knight>But I'm also very aware when like I like if I bust out my notebook, and I start writing down a list, like, it's time to turn off my podcast.

00:26:21.120 --> 00:26:23.880
<v Michelle Knight>Because I'm like, I'm too crazy with it.

00:26:24.360 --> 00:26:31.700
<v Renee Bowen>That is a really good point. That is a really, really, really good point that I really don't think we talk enough about like, you're right,

00:26:31.840 --> 00:26:39.620
<v Renee Bowen>you're so right. Like, especially those of us who have this kind of brain, like you and I are a lot alike. And that's, I can identify so much with that.

00:26:40.300 --> 00:26:49.340
<v Renee Bowen>When I think for me, it's definitely an OCD sort of anxiety thing. Like, as I as I've gotten older and some other diagnoses,

00:26:49.840 --> 00:26:58.000
<v Renee Bowen>I realized, oh, okay, that's what that was this whole time. My brain, that overthinking, it'll get stuck on something like that.

00:26:58.220 --> 00:27:06.260
<v Renee Bowen>And so the personal development, even though you think that, you know, it's good intentions, like you are trying to better yourself and get more self awareness,

00:27:06.520 --> 00:27:14.380
<v Renee Bowen>well, it can also, it could just take the place of that. And it continues to reinforce the over functioning,

00:27:14.900 --> 00:27:22.060
<v Renee Bowen>it reinforces the be good, be better, be more, do this, like, I have had to do the same thing.

00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:30.380
<v Renee Bowen>And I'm an OG personal development girl too, like, I mean, I was doing this in the early 90s. And I love it. But I also,

00:27:30.500 --> 00:27:38.940
<v Renee Bowen>I had to stop listening to all the podcasts, I had to, I'm so glad you brought up the fiction book, because that is something that I had completely,

00:27:39.220 --> 00:27:48.920
<v Renee Bowen>I was a reader my whole life, like, I was that kid, you probably were too, or, you know, under the covers, at, you know, 2am reading books. And I lost that in entrepreneurship.

00:27:49.620 --> 00:27:56.920
<v Renee Bowen>and I stopped reading any fiction books. It was all nonfiction, all business book, all audio books all the time.

00:27:58.260 --> 00:27:58.260
<v Renee Bowen>And

00:27:58.260 --> 00:28:02.780
<v Michelle Knight>it was like, how can I ask? Can I consume? And like how much can I learn and how fast?

00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:15.420
<v Renee Bowen>Yeah, I'm telling you, it's just like OCD sort of like hyper functioning brain that I have, like I want more, more, more, more, more, more. And then I it was when I went to like last year when we went to Mexico

00:28:15.420 --> 00:28:22.920
<v Renee Bowen>on that flight. It was the first time I think I'd read a fiction book in probably four or five years.

00:28:23.800 --> 00:28:33.980
<v Renee Bowen>And it literally completely shifted my brain. And so that kind of thing, hobby without monetizing is such a great point because,

00:28:34.180 --> 00:28:43.720
<v Renee Bowen>yes, with this kind of brain, you're always like, well, I'm good at it. So I might as well see if I can make some money at it. It's a really good point as far as like the letting go piece of it.

00:28:43.840 --> 00:28:52.440
<v Renee Bowen>Right. Because I really have always said that. It's like, honestly, the biggest personal development thing for me is like, I just I just need to learn to let go more.

00:28:52.680 --> 00:29:00.620
<v Renee Bowen>And that's a big, big piece of it because I'm so Virgo. I have so many Virgo placements, but my North Node is Pisces, which is legitimately the complete opposite.

00:29:01.400 --> 00:29:10.440
<v Renee Bowen>It's in my South Node is Virgo. Like what in the hell? I literally am a Virgo and I have all these placements. But my South Node, and for those of you guys who do not understand astrology,

00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:18.920
<v Renee Bowen>basically what this means is that my lifetime here is letting go of being a Virgo, letting go of over functioning,

00:29:19.580 --> 00:29:27.520
<v Renee Bowen>letting go of overdoing and moving toward being more like Piscean, which is the twelfth sign and very spiritual,

00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:37.660
<v Renee Bowen>very water, very flow, very letting go. And I'm like, this is the question of my life. So I'm always thinking about that.

00:29:37.840 --> 00:29:45.740
<v Renee Bowen>And it could be something as simple as picking up a book that is not a personal development book in all these little different ways.

00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:57.100
<v Renee Bowen>So I'm glad that you highlighted that. But I want to go back a little bit to the grief part because I feel like that is a very specific and particular thing that I haven't gone through.

00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:06.520
<v Renee Bowen>But I know a lot of people have that was a really big part of this for you. Right. Like the sitting with that and then bringing bringing you to where you are now.

00:30:06.520 --> 00:30:19.020
<v Renee Bowen>So is that sort of like the spark of what like you said, all these all these people leaving your life and always feeling like maybe that time is your time is limited because

00:30:19.020 --> 00:30:21.820
<v Renee Bowen>of it. Was that a piece of it for you? And then what shifted?

00:30:22.620 --> 00:30:34.480
<v Michelle Knight>Basically. Yeah, I would say each of those seasons, because I lost my brother years before I was married or even dating my husband or had kids.

00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:36.240
<v Michelle Knight>I was 22 at the time.

00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:37.680
<v Renee Bowen>And you guys were really close.

00:30:38.660 --> 00:30:47.060
<v Michelle Knight>Yeah, we were basically inseparable and incredibly close. And so, I mean, that was obviously devastating.

00:30:47.760 --> 00:30:56.580
<v Michelle Knight>What came out of that really shocked me because I talk about this in the book, too. And there's another book coming later.

00:30:56.580 --> 00:31:06.240
<v Michelle Knight>That's actually his full story. That was the first book I ever wanted to write. And then I realized that there was a book I needed to birth first before that book.

00:31:07.380 --> 00:31:18.420
<v Michelle Knight>But I had this moment where I actually said in a news interview, because he had trouble with insurance, hence why my husband's thing was so triggering and couldn't get things approved.

00:31:18.740 --> 00:31:27.180
<v Michelle Knight>So we had insurance and the news station. And so they covered his story for like a really long time. And so when he passed away, people wanted to check in,

00:31:27.380 --> 00:31:38.760
<v Michelle Knight>you know, and the news station wanted to know how we were doing. And and I said something on camera. I said, I have come to realize that like the best way that I can honor him is just fully live my life.

00:31:39.320 --> 00:31:47.960
<v Michelle Knight>And that was really hard. And there were times like while he was sick and after and even years later where I genuinely was like,

00:31:48.280 --> 00:32:00.280
<v Michelle Knight>why the hell didn't did you? Why did you take him like he like as people will learn one day when I write my book was just like this incredible being that was just like gifted to us as humans.

00:32:00.280 --> 00:32:07.440
<v Michelle Knight>Like he just was so wise by in his years and just like it was just truly, truly incredible to be in his presence at all times.

00:32:08.340 --> 00:32:17.400
<v Michelle Knight>And so I did not feel that way about myself because I had, you know, felt like a failure for a really long time and didn't really know what I was doing.

00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:27.000
<v Michelle Knight>And, you know, drank a lot and partied, you know, it was kind of like, like, what the hell like you messed up what's going on?

00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:38.780
<v Michelle Knight>But then I realized I was like, wait, if I fully live my life, it'll be like such a gift, you know? And that was like what I now know to be kind of as my mission statement,

00:32:38.780 --> 00:32:48.480
<v Michelle Knight>although I never like labeled it as such. It has just been the compass and the guiding light for me forever. I am fortunate that I married my brother's best friend.

00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:58.100
<v Michelle Knight>So we share this common view on life. And so in that next season of grief,

00:32:58.320 --> 00:33:06.760
<v Michelle Knight>when we lost my grandmother and his mother, we literally were like, what? Okay,

00:33:07.380 --> 00:33:16.850
<v Michelle Knight>this could happen at any point in time. People don't want to talk about that. Like I have this conversation with my with one of my cousins who gets a lot of anxiety thinking about death.

00:33:17.150 --> 00:33:24.930
<v Michelle Knight>And I'm like, so weird to me, because I am the opposite. I think about it. And I'm like, let's go. Let's go.

00:33:25.090 --> 00:33:37.310
<v Michelle Knight>Like, let's go do some crazy shit. We only have one chance. And so we made that decision after my grandmother or after my grandmother and his mother passed away to sell our house and pack our lives into

00:33:37.310 --> 00:33:48.110
<v Michelle Knight>an RV because we had been talking about it for two years straight. And we were like, what the hell? So that has been building a lot over the years,

00:33:48.110 --> 00:34:00.570
<v Michelle Knight>you know, but what's been really interesting about grief and the mission and being like, YOLO, let's go. It's a lot easier when it's not me being

00:34:00.570 --> 00:34:09.110
<v Michelle Knight>like, ah, what do what do what do I want to be? Like, why do who is what is this next iteration?

00:34:09.810 --> 00:34:20.010
<v Michelle Knight>It's way easier, honestly, which sounds crazy for me to be like, yeah, let's sell our house and let's go get an RV. Let's go have the time of our lives and not like, what kind of business do I want to run?

00:34:20.530 --> 00:34:33.330
<v Michelle Knight>You know, like, yeah, how do we want to show up in the world? But I do think that that mission, that gift that my brother gave me does give me that spark to make these

00:34:33.330 --> 00:34:42.710
<v Michelle Knight>decisions because I'm not going to sit in sadness and like not doing anything.

00:34:42.850 --> 00:34:47.430
<v Michelle Knight>I just like physically can't make that promise that I wasn't going to do that.

00:34:48.350 --> 00:34:55.470
<v Renee Bowen>That really hits home for me, even though, like I said, I haven't really experienced loss like that yet. No, it's coming.

00:34:55.950 --> 00:35:03.210
<v Renee Bowen>But I mean, it's life, right? I went through a really hard time. So you know this about me. I'm an anxiety girl.

00:35:03.370 --> 00:35:12.230
<v Renee Bowen>Like that kind of goes along with like being a Virgo, I think to a point. But I had a lot of after my the twins were born,

00:35:12.870 --> 00:35:23.390
<v Renee Bowen>because I had my first one and then two years later, I had twins. And my body just like stopped working. And I went through major it wasn't like postpartum psychosis,

00:35:23.390 --> 00:35:35.670
<v Renee Bowen>thank God. But it definitely it was not even postpartum depression. It was postpartum anxiety. I like it made my the underlying anxiety because now I can see what

00:35:35.670 --> 00:35:46.490
<v Renee Bowen>was happening. I mean, when I was in it, I couldn't really see that. But it made the my baseline that I already kind of had going on of anxiety that was like a little dormant because yeah,

00:35:46.570 --> 00:35:54.130
<v Renee Bowen>I was very much in my 20s. Like, you would never have thought that I had anxiety looking at me in my 20s, like pre kids pre married,

00:35:54.290 --> 00:35:54.970
<v Renee Bowen>I was like, let's just go out.

00:35:55.390 --> 00:35:55.670
<v Michelle Knight>We're so good at hiding it.

00:35:57.030 --> 00:36:04.350
<v Renee Bowen>We are we're really good at it. And we also are really good at having a really good time. Right? Like that whole like, let's just go out and party. I'll just move to LA.

00:36:04.470 --> 00:36:11.870
<v Renee Bowen>I don't know. I have no job. I have nothing, but I'm just gonna move to LA because I'm 25. And I can that kind of shit. Right? Like, so I was like,

00:36:12.190 --> 00:36:23.610
<v Renee Bowen>what is this anxiety? Well, it had been there. But I had been like you said, like, I'm good at hiding things or adding things to the plate to make it not come to the surface.

00:36:24.210 --> 00:36:32.070
<v Renee Bowen>And then after the twins were born, I couldn't do it anymore. Like my hormones, everything were just like so, so out of whack.

00:36:32.530 --> 00:36:40.890
<v Renee Bowen>It was the actor strike. My husband was not working. I couldn't really work. So I just had these two babies and the toddler who was literally climbing the walls undiagnosed with autism.

00:36:41.370 --> 00:36:49.490
<v Renee Bowen>So like I was like, like, literally on the floor of my closet some nights, just crying. And so all that to say,

00:36:49.870 --> 00:36:58.430
<v Renee Bowen>I went through this really, really, really rough period of time after that, where I was terrified that anxiety, it manifested in that fear of death,

00:36:58.890 --> 00:37:05.990
<v Renee Bowen>out of nowhere. I didn't have anybody in my life that I lost. But for some reason,

00:37:06.970 --> 00:37:16.770
<v Renee Bowen>I grabbed hold of that. And it's I started getting very, very obsessed with like, well, what's going to happen if I die? Because everyone relies on me,

00:37:17.010 --> 00:37:24.310
<v Renee Bowen>right? What's going to happen to my kids? And that was it. Like that that anxiety just took hold. So yes, therapy, meds, the things,

00:37:24.770 --> 00:37:32.130
<v Renee Bowen>the supplements, the things, it took me years to sort of climb out of that hole. And it was really terrifying. So I really understand when you said that,

00:37:32.130 --> 00:37:41.090
<v Renee Bowen>like, some people have that fear, I get that. And it's so interesting to me, that is like, obviously, now I'm not in that place anymore.

00:37:41.950 --> 00:37:49.770
<v Renee Bowen>And I see it in a very different way. And I can identify with this, I'm going to live my life more because that, that is also something that I think about now,

00:37:49.770 --> 00:37:58.710
<v Renee Bowen>too. So I know you're writing a whole book about your brother after, but in this book that's coming out, and it's called The Beautiful Climb Yes,

00:37:58.710 --> 00:38:06.070
<v Renee Bowen>The Beautiful Climb Yeah, which I think is amazing. What are you kind of does that sort of come in to play a little bit here in this book?

00:38:06.430 --> 00:38:09.850
<v Renee Bowen>What is this book really exploring, free from your other book?

00:38:13.150 --> 00:38:24.230
<v Michelle Knight>Yeah, yeah, it's, it's so interesting. You know, I touch on a lot of shared experiences that I think women will be able to relate to.

00:38:24.730 --> 00:38:32.710
<v Michelle Knight>But you know, obviously, from my, you know, lived perspective of being a high achiever in high school, making those decisions.

00:38:33.430 --> 00:38:40.850
<v Michelle Knight>I have two solid chapters on postpartum. I know we've spent probably like eight hours talking about postpartum in Mexico,

00:38:40.850 --> 00:38:49.090
<v Michelle Knight>because we're just like locked in, which I think is a very important conversation for so many women and a lot of women.

00:38:49.370 --> 00:38:59.310
<v Michelle Knight>I have conversations with my friends now that are like, holy moly, I didn't even realize that's what I was experiencing, or it didn't happen to like a year later,

00:38:59.510 --> 00:39:08.010
<v Michelle Knight>or, you know, those different things, you know, and that that's crazy, because nobody talks about it. And, you know, my nature is just to share my own story so that you can,

00:39:08.010 --> 00:39:18.170
<v Michelle Knight>you know, recognize these things in your own. So, you know, I think the book for me is really about becoming the best version of yourself.

00:39:18.350 --> 00:39:25.730
<v Michelle Knight>And I say that with like a grain of salt, right? Because it's not like, you know, like constantly moving up. In fact, like I call it The Beautiful Climb for a few reasons.

00:39:25.870 --> 00:39:34.150
<v Michelle Knight>My husband actually lovingly named my first podcast, The Beautiful Climb back in 2019, when I needed a passion project for my business,

00:39:34.150 --> 00:39:44.170
<v Michelle Knight>because I was tired of talking about marketing. And he's like, why don't you just start a podcast where you talk about vulnerability and the storytelling and all the things that you love?

00:39:44.170 --> 00:39:52.490
<v Michelle Knight>And I was like, Oh my gosh, it's gonna be so hard. So we called it The Beautiful Climb And I ended it in 2020. I was all I was a short lived.

00:39:52.590 --> 00:39:59.730
<v Michelle Knight>And almost every episode of that podcast has now become chapters in my book, which is like, it's just so crazy.

00:39:59.810 --> 00:40:11.910
<v Michelle Knight>I don't believe in any coincidences. But the whole idea was that like, it's about the journey, like we're constantly like reaching for something new and reaching for the best version of this and like trying to get

00:40:11.910 --> 00:40:20.650
<v Michelle Knight>to the peak, when really, you know, it's about making these intentional, authentic decisions on the way up.

00:40:20.770 --> 00:40:30.130
<v Michelle Knight>And rather than feeling like it's something that we have to do, treating it like something that we get to do, which again, stems from a huge mission of mine of like,

00:40:30.590 --> 00:40:41.150
<v Michelle Knight>you get this life, like act like it, like let's start acting like we have this like one life, let's do it. But do it in a way that is like truly you choosing,

00:40:41.590 --> 00:40:51.250
<v Michelle Knight>not other people choosing for you. So it's like an honest look at what has happened to me and my journey through grief,

00:40:51.470 --> 00:41:00.410
<v Michelle Knight>through childbirth, through postpartum, through choosing through marriage to all of those different things, and intentionally, and repeatedly,

00:41:00.410 --> 00:41:10.530
<v Michelle Knight>choosing the life that I want, and not the life that was expected of me. And kind of like the layers that were predetermined.

00:41:11.070 --> 00:41:23.470
<v Michelle Knight>So yeah, it's, it's, it's gonna be a good one. I'm so excited. I, you know, my goal at the end of it all is that someone can close the book and feel like they have the power

00:41:23.470 --> 00:41:31.130
<v Michelle Knight>to have a conversation to make a choice to go after something that they've been scared to,

00:41:31.130 --> 00:41:38.650
<v Michelle Knight>or just sit quietly with themselves and like finally ask themselves what the hell, what the hell they want, because they probably haven't done that.

00:41:39.690 --> 00:41:46.830
<v Renee Bowen>Okay, yeah, love. I love that. Yeah, I wanted to ask like, what do you hope someone does when they kind of finished the book?

00:41:46.830 --> 00:41:54.370
<v Renee Bowen>So that was perfect. Because I feel like, and also, I wanted to ask you about the process of writing it too. Because you know,

00:41:54.410 --> 00:42:04.550
<v Renee Bowen>when we met, you were like, I'm gonna do it, right? Like, I'm gonna eat. And it was originally, I think, like, the other book, right? And so it's interesting to me that that took you here and you're like,

00:42:04.550 --> 00:42:16.350
<v Renee Bowen>okay, I'm gonna follow this breadcrumb, and I'm gonna like, kind of dig into this first. But, you know, I have thought about writing multiple books for so many years.

00:42:16.870 --> 00:42:21.990
<v Renee Bowen>So like, what got you to sort of pull the trigger on it?

00:42:22.530 --> 00:42:30.810
<v Michelle Knight>Yeah, talk about a process. So I guess there's actually been three books, technically, the first book,

00:42:30.930 --> 00:42:38.770
<v Michelle Knight>the book about my brother is a book that I told my husband, I was going to write when we lived in a little apartment in Chicago before we were married.

00:42:38.910 --> 00:42:46.610
<v Michelle Knight>And I was like, one day I will write a book. This was before I was an entrepreneur. And so I've always known that I want to do that, even if I don't sell a single copy,

00:42:46.710 --> 00:42:55.990
<v Michelle Knight>I just really want his legacy and like the things that he taught me to be in a book. And so I always knew that I wanted to be a writer in some capacity.

00:42:56.450 --> 00:43:04.010
<v Michelle Knight>And then fast forward to being a business owner, and I wanted to write a branding book. So this book actually started as a branding book,

00:43:04.890 --> 00:43:14.290
<v Michelle Knight>branding from my perspective of, hey, sometimes you set out to build this wonderful, beautiful brand, and then you discover you don't actually know who you are.

00:43:14.810 --> 00:43:23.750
<v Michelle Knight>And that sends you down an entire, you know, path of figuring out who am I? What do I like? What's my favorite color? What fonts do I like?

00:43:23.830 --> 00:43:35.750
<v Michelle Knight>Like the little things that can be really triggering to someone who has never really asked themselves these questions, and has often looked outside of themselves for the answers at what everyone else is doing,

00:43:35.850 --> 00:43:45.010
<v Michelle Knight>and what's popular, and what looks cool and fun. And that's how I started. And I actually got about five chapters in and hit a wall.

00:43:45.370 --> 00:43:54.850
<v Michelle Knight>And the first five chapters were all about discovering my story and understanding that I hadn't really been authentic because I didn't know what the hell that meant.

00:43:55.230 --> 00:44:05.590
<v Michelle Knight>And then as soon as I started to get into the teaching of the branding book, I couldn't write anymore. And this was like at the end, this was at the middle beginning of 2025.

00:44:07.050 --> 00:44:16.870
<v Michelle Knight>And so I just let it sit there and kept telling myself I was going to come back to it. And then this year, I just had realization that like,

00:44:16.870 --> 00:44:24.650
<v Michelle Knight>oh, that's not the book that I want to write at all, which makes sense, because that's not really what I want to do in my business anymore, which makes sense because you know,

00:44:25.110 --> 00:44:33.430
<v Michelle Knight>and so I've used every full moon, every new moon, every equinox, every, every, every, everything to just like journal, and like, what is this dang book?

00:44:33.990 --> 00:44:45.730
<v Michelle Knight>And honestly, most of the writing has happened this summer. I mean, obviously, there's a lot of the chapters stem from these podcasts transcripts where the conversation started.

00:44:46.070 --> 00:44:50.370
<v Michelle Knight>But the bulk of all of my writing has happened within the last 45 days.

00:44:51.190 --> 00:45:00.210
<v Renee Bowen>Wow. That's incredible. I love that. That's inspirational to me, because I go through cycles like that.

00:45:00.830 --> 00:45:10.490
<v Renee Bowen>And I've noticed like, and I love I love the witchiness, obviously, as well, right? Like, you know, using using the energy that's already happening.

00:45:11.810 --> 00:45:18.890
<v Renee Bowen>I do that as well. You guys know that listening. So I love the fact that, you know, when you hit the pocket, well, first of all, you cracked it open, you're like, okay,

00:45:18.990 --> 00:45:27.050
<v Renee Bowen>that's, instead of forcing, you know, yourself to stay on this track that you had set yourself on, you had to like,

00:45:27.430 --> 00:45:38.110
<v Renee Bowen>really be honest about and I think that's another piece of this too, is like that being radically honest with yourself and being like, okay, I'm not going to just like push through this and make it this branding book when it doesn't even feel really aligned anymore.

00:45:38.210 --> 00:45:47.950
<v Renee Bowen>So where is this taking me now? Allowing your own evolution to sort of guide it. That's intuition. And you're so good at listening to your intuition. Have you always been good at listening to your intuition?

00:45:48.630 --> 00:45:59.190
<v Michelle Knight>No, no, absolutely not. I would not like her to show up, but someone else give me the answer, please. You know what?

00:45:59.230 --> 00:46:07.770
<v Michelle Knight>That's interesting. I'm good at listening. I'll take that back. I'm good at listening to my intuition when other people have a problem. I'm happy to tell you what I think needs to be done.

00:46:08.550 --> 00:46:17.790
<v Michelle Knight>And I will very clearly, but I again, don't know if I ever was like, I don't know, what do you think? And so that's been a huge thing too.

00:46:18.150 --> 00:46:25.370
<v Michelle Knight>I think it's very interesting because simultaneously as I moved away from the break in personal development overload,

00:46:25.390 --> 00:46:37.610
<v Michelle Knight>I started diving into astrology and the witchy-ness of it and understanding just a lot of different factors and just wanting to kind of find the best way to connect

00:46:37.610 --> 00:46:49.750
<v Michelle Knight>with myself. And so there has been a big part that I've unlocked over the last year because I finally recognize that there were

00:46:49.750 --> 00:46:59.050
<v Michelle Knight>so many things living under the surface that I had just been ignoring. And so my intuition is like, it looks like I've been doing this a long time,

00:46:59.150 --> 00:47:08.510
<v Michelle Knight>but I have not been doing this a long time. In fact, it still scares the shit out of me. But I know that I can recognize it in my body now.

00:47:09.050 --> 00:47:21.210
<v Michelle Knight>I had a friend one time and she was like, this is what's worked for me. She goes, I know when my intuition is really locked in and really guiding me when I

00:47:21.210 --> 00:47:31.890
<v Michelle Knight>can feel calm and safety in my body. And as someone who is very anxious and moving all of the time and that's kind of my natural state,

00:47:32.230 --> 00:47:42.630
<v Michelle Knight>it's been really easy for me to recognize that. Does that sit safely? Do I feel like, safety is the best word.

00:47:42.770 --> 00:47:51.870
<v Michelle Knight>I'm trying to think of a different word, but anyone who has lived in chaos or has existed in chaos knows what safety feels like when you truly experience it.

00:47:51.990 --> 00:47:59.010
<v Michelle Knight>And that is what intuition feels like to me and so I can hear her and it's very fun.

00:48:00.630 --> 00:48:12.970
<v Renee Bowen>Okay, I love the safety piece of it because that is something I've been meditating on, journaling on myself a lot in the last like year or so because my anxiety has gotten super loud

00:48:12.970 --> 00:48:22.570
<v Renee Bowen>just recently. And that is like something that I have to anchor back into is, okay, well, when it's hard for me to like access that feeling now,

00:48:22.770 --> 00:48:29.890
<v Renee Bowen>because again, you know what anxiety is like. And sometimes it just gets away from you. But for me, it's like, okay, well, when did I feel safe?

00:48:30.310 --> 00:48:42.470
<v Renee Bowen>Like as a kid or anytime in my life, like what made, you know what I mean? Like when did I feel safe in my body? And kind of like remembering that and then seeing if I can like

00:48:42.470 --> 00:48:52.950
<v Renee Bowen>kind of in meditation hold that feeling, the feeling of it, because like that's sort of the cheat code, right? It helps tremendously for me to to be able to recall that.

00:48:53.070 --> 00:49:00.570
<v Renee Bowen>But I am lucky that I have a lot of memories of that, right? Because like, not everybody does. So I realized that that is,

00:49:00.690 --> 00:49:09.910
<v Renee Bowen>you know, that is a privilege that I have, not only to have those experiences, but to be able to remember, like I have a ridiculous memory, ridiculous. So yeah,

00:49:10.070 --> 00:49:17.150
<v Renee Bowen>it's a blessing and a curse. Because like, ask my husband, because he's the opposite,

00:49:17.470 --> 00:49:26.450
<v Renee Bowen>right? Like, yeah. He's like, you remember that? I'm like, oh, yes, I do. And so it can be it can be good and bad.

00:49:26.570 --> 00:49:33.970
<v Renee Bowen>But for me, safety's, like I said, safety has been something that I've been thinking about. So I'm glad that you brought that piece up.

00:49:34.150 --> 00:49:44.770
<v Renee Bowen>And then like, I think that just learning how to recognize intuition in general for anybody is just really important. Because especially if you do have anxiety or an overthinking brain or whatever,

00:49:44.770 --> 00:49:52.470
<v Renee Bowen>like, you can feel like it's like there's a trickster in there, right? And that's just that's actually not your unconscious. I mean, that's not your intuition.

00:49:52.630 --> 00:50:01.650
<v Renee Bowen>That's your unconscious programming. That's your safety lever, right? Your unconscious mind is just trying to keep you safe and alive. If it's imposing fear,

00:50:02.310 --> 00:50:10.190
<v Renee Bowen>if it's pulling you back, if it's like, no, don't do that. That's not your intuition, because your intuition isn't going to talk to you like that.

00:50:10.650 --> 00:50:17.730
<v Renee Bowen>And so it doesn't necessarily have to mean I think, you know, super Zen, right? Like, because maybe that's not your baseline, but you do know it,

00:50:17.850 --> 00:50:25.230
<v Renee Bowen>like if you can tune into your body. So I'm glad that you brought that piece of it. You have you gone into a lot of your Human Design too?

00:50:25.510 --> 00:50:26.390
<v Renee Bowen>Is that something else you've tapped into?

00:50:27.130 --> 00:50:34.230
<v Michelle Knight>Yeah, yeah, you're gonna love this one. I recently discovered this about myself. So we can nerd out about this. So I've been telling my husband,

00:50:34.230 --> 00:50:42.710
<v Michelle Knight>like, I guess within the last few years since we bought our home, it was kind of triggering for me because I was like,

00:50:42.750 --> 00:50:51.110
<v Michelle Knight>I want to be a vagabond, like, I want to be out there exploring and like seeing everything. And I was like, kind of resistant against doing it.

00:50:51.250 --> 00:50:58.350
<v Michelle Knight>But trusted the process. I have recently found out and it makes so much sense that this is where all of my healing has occurred,

00:50:58.350 --> 00:51:05.770
<v Michelle Knight>that I have a stellium in my fourth house and my environment and my Human Design is the cave. Oh my gosh.

00:51:06.290 --> 00:51:15.310
<v Michelle Knight>I was like, well, that's mind blowing, you know, so like, I have been like I said, I've been kind of diving into those different pieces,

00:51:15.310 --> 00:51:20.230
<v Michelle Knight>like how I make decisions. I'm a projector. I think we were like, what? When I told you that

00:51:20.230 --> 00:51:27.490
<v Renee Bowen>and like, well, that makes sense. Because what you just said a little bit earlier, though, about like, knowing really clearly what other people need to do,

00:51:27.490 --> 00:51:34.330
<v Renee Bowen>right? Like, yeah, that's, that's you guys are projectors are amazing at that. But when it comes to your own, real tough.

00:51:34.850 --> 00:51:42.050
<v Michelle Knight>Right. And, and it's been honestly, it's been so fun to explore those different pieces.

00:51:42.270 --> 00:51:49.530
<v Michelle Knight>And, and you know, I talked to a lot of people who aren't, I mean, obviously, most people listening to this podcast are into astrology and all that, but maybe we're married to someone who doesn't love it.

00:51:50.250 --> 00:52:02.350
<v Michelle Knight>Or there are family members. And I'm like, that's totally fine. But what I love about it is that it has just like removed so many questions for me about like,

00:52:02.530 --> 00:52:13.870
<v Michelle Knight>why do I do that? Why is that a thing that like, I can't fight, it just feels like I'm constantly drawn to this over and over and over again.

00:52:14.270 --> 00:52:23.130
<v Michelle Knight>And now I have answers. And that's fun. And that was actually that in maybe it was right before November last year when we met,

00:52:23.210 --> 00:52:30.570
<v Michelle Knight>because I was getting ready to go through it. I was like, I was like, stuff's wonky right now, but I'm here in Mexico,

00:52:30.850 --> 00:52:37.950
<v Michelle Knight>drinking margarita, it'll be great. I had recently just switched over to Claude before everyone was switching over to Claude. And I was like,

00:52:37.990 --> 00:52:45.230
<v Michelle Knight>you know what, I'm gonna put my chart in here. And I'm gonna put my Human Design in here. And I want it to not know anything about me.

00:52:45.310 --> 00:52:52.350
<v Michelle Knight>I didn't tell it my name, my Instagram, I didn't tell them I had a website. And I was like, share with me what these two things are saying.

00:52:53.650 --> 00:53:05.790
<v Michelle Knight>I was floored. I was literally like, I texted all of my friends, I was like, look at this, because I had been having these conversations with them about like feeling like it was time to write the book feeling like I needed

00:53:05.790 --> 00:53:13.670
<v Michelle Knight>to make a pivot in my business. It was like you are meant to not you, you're, you're really good at teaching, you're really good at educating,

00:53:13.830 --> 00:53:21.950
<v Michelle Knight>you're really good at strategy. But like what you should be doing is having deep conversations with people speaking on stage.

00:53:22.510 --> 00:53:30.650
<v Michelle Knight>And I was like, whoa, this is crazy. And it had all been stuff I was saying with people I loved. And then this robot read my chart.

00:53:31.170 --> 00:53:39.890
<v Michelle Knight>So it's, it's, it was, it was crazy. And also gave me the permission slip that I think I needed to just take that next step.

00:53:40.530 --> 00:53:48.890
<v Renee Bowen>That's a really great word. I use that word a lot when it comes to Human Design in particular, and astrology permission. It's like, it's so interesting,

00:53:49.030 --> 00:53:56.110
<v Renee Bowen>because I, you know, I use it in my coaching. And even if like my coaching students don't have any idea what it is, I always pull their chart and I sort of like outline some things.

00:53:56.150 --> 00:54:04.450
<v Renee Bowen>And now I make a whole brand brief for them. And they're like, are you psychic? And I'm like, no, it's literally just right there. Right. And so what do you remind me though,

00:54:04.470 --> 00:54:05.650
<v Renee Bowen>what your profile lines are?

00:54:07.050 --> 00:54:11.890
<v Michelle Knight>Oh, I don't know at the top of my head. I'd have to pull them up.

00:54:12.370 --> 00:54:17.010
<v Renee Bowen>You might be a, it's I don't know, I would be kind of shocked if you weren't a two line, but

00:54:18.790 --> 00:54:25.850
<v Michelle Knight>I can ask Claude right now. Claude, you remember what my profile lines are?

00:54:28.750 --> 00:54:36.750
<v Michelle Knight>Oh, no, but it's like, I like I also had to be really careful when I did it all. Like I've been into astrology for a very long time.

00:54:36.890 --> 00:54:43.950
<v Michelle Knight>So that one was pretty easy for me. But when I started getting into Human Design I was like, okay, I can't obsess about this. I was like,

00:54:44.170 --> 00:54:47.070
<v Michelle Knight>if I do that, yes, I'm a three five.

00:54:47.310 --> 00:54:54.370
<v Renee Bowen>Okay, yes. All right. That does make sense. Yes. Okay. All right. It's that fifth line,

00:54:54.490 --> 00:55:05.310
<v Renee Bowen>like people project on to you, that you just know what you're doing. And, you know, your whole life, and that goes in alignment with this good girl stuff that we started with.

00:55:05.530 --> 00:55:13.230
<v Renee Bowen>So it's a really good way to kind of bookend this conversation. Because we could talk for hours. I know. And, you know,

00:55:13.650 --> 00:55:25.950
<v Renee Bowen>hopefully we will again soon. But that fifth line is hard though, because like, you don't always feel like you are that like internal expert people project

00:55:25.950 --> 00:55:33.430
<v Renee Bowen>on to you that you do have this like knowing and it can be about whatever. And so there's that sense of like,

00:55:33.510 --> 00:55:41.790
<v Renee Bowen>you have to like live up to that. And then the three line is just all about experimentation. It's like, well, that didn't work. I'm gonna try this and that. And that's that's just really interesting.

00:55:42.110 --> 00:55:52.150
<v Renee Bowen>I have a lot of three fives in my coaching. Yeah, a lot of three fives, a lot of five ones, a lot of fifth lines. And every single person in my family besides me has a five line in their chart,

00:55:52.290 --> 00:55:59.790
<v Renee Bowen>like all my kids have a five, my husband has a five. I'm a two four. So it's really interesting. I'm like, Hmm, anyway,

00:55:59.850 --> 00:56:05.650
<v Renee Bowen>that's a whole other conversation that one day we will dive into. But

00:56:05.650 --> 00:56:10.390
<v Michelle Knight>yeah, analyze my chart on a podcast any day. I'm here for it.

00:56:10.630 --> 00:56:20.170
<v Renee Bowen>I love it. You know, it's my special interest. I want to just sort of like wrap up telling people when the book is coming out,

00:56:20.310 --> 00:56:27.930
<v Renee Bowen>how they can find it, how you like to connect with people. Because I know I see you on Instagram all the time. So, you know,

00:56:28.130 --> 00:56:33.270
<v Renee Bowen>I love being able to like just kind of dip into your world there. Is that where you like to connect with people and tell people about your book?

00:56:34.130 --> 00:56:38.970
<v Michelle Knight>I'd say right now, Instagram is what I'm vibing with, you know, I'm really...

00:56:38.970 --> 00:56:40.290
<v Renee Bowen>And Substack too, right? You're doing Substack?

00:56:40.930 --> 00:56:50.090
<v Michelle Knight>Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I would say like, if you're into social media, if that's your thing, you know, you're on social, then Instagram is probably the best place. I'm at @michelleknightco over there.

00:56:50.630 --> 00:56:57.690
<v Michelle Knight>But I do have a Substack by the same name of my book called The Beautiful Climb And I started that and I share,

00:56:57.690 --> 00:57:06.350
<v Michelle Knight>you know, more insights into the things that I'm going through as I transition my business and learn to trust my intuition and,

00:57:06.370 --> 00:57:15.470
<v Michelle Knight>you know, live this beautiful life. And then the book comes out October 20. And I'm so excited and terrified at the same time.

00:57:15.470 --> 00:57:23.150
<v Michelle Knight>Talk about vulnerability. Like it's one thing people are like, you've been making content for 10 years. It was like, I've been teaching for 10 years.

00:57:23.250 --> 00:57:31.630
<v Michelle Knight>And yeah, I've always told stories, but like through the lens of a business, this is, this is, you know, vulnerable and it's official.

00:57:31.910 --> 00:57:40.610
<v Michelle Knight>It's printed. You can't delete it. It's there forever. It comes out October 20. And if you want more information on it,

00:57:40.610 --> 00:57:46.490
<v Michelle Knight>you can go to the beautifulclimb.com. And there's a wait list and all of the information about the pre-order will be there.

00:57:47.010 --> 00:57:54.590
<v Renee Bowen>Amazing. Yeah. Cause I'm not sure exactly when this episode will come out. So that's perfect. Yeah. And you can go there and get all the info. I can't wait to read it.

00:57:54.730 --> 00:57:59.390
<v Renee Bowen>I'm super excited. So thank you for being here and sharing so openly with everybody.

00:57:59.550 --> 00:58:00.770
<v Michelle Knight>Thank you, friend. This was amazing.

00:58:01.790 --> 00:58:09.350
<v Renee Bowen>I told you guys Michelle was amazing. And now you get to really experience her for yourself. I hope you guys enjoyed that.

00:58:09.350 --> 00:58:18.030
<v Renee Bowen>We could go on and on and on. Like honestly, we totally did like a whole full moon ritual when we were at the retreat,

00:58:18.490 --> 00:58:27.450
<v Renee Bowen>like just total soul sister. So I really hope that you guys enjoyed the conversation. Maybe if it brought something up for you,

00:58:27.530 --> 00:58:37.950
<v Renee Bowen>I would love to hear that. Hit me up over on Instagram and the DMS. If you do share this episode, please tag us. Absolutely go get in her universe because she's a delight to follow.

00:58:38.210 --> 00:58:46.170
<v Renee Bowen>And she's just a wealth of information, but also just so authentically herself. Again, that's another reason why I'm so drawn to her. We have very similar,

00:58:46.170 --> 00:58:53.310
<v Renee Bowen>I think mission statements for our business. Like I just want you to be a hundred percent unapologetically you and she's really into that as well.

00:58:53.510 --> 00:59:00.830
<v Renee Bowen>And so our messaging is really similar in that way and we have so much in common. So definitely go give her a follow,

00:59:00.830 --> 00:59:08.210
<v Renee Bowen>get her book. I'm so excited to read it as well. And I'm so proud of her for like getting that out there. It's a huge,

00:59:08.370 --> 00:59:16.350
<v Renee Bowen>huge accomplishment. So thank you again, Michelle, for being here. I hope you guys have really good takeaways from this episode. As always, thank you for being here.

00:59:16.450 --> 00:59:23.750
<v Renee Bowen>If you're not following and subscribing yet, you can do that really quickly. It helps me, it helps the show, it helps us reach more people.

00:59:24.150 --> 00:59:31.710
<v Renee Bowen>So tell your friends to listen to Tried & True with a Dash of Woo and I appreciate you for being here. Alright, you guys have a great rest of your week.

00:59:31.910 --> 00:59:33.850
<v Renee Bowen>I'll talk to you soon. Love you. Bye.